Disney/Pixar In General

Kids>Family film

They are roughly the same thing at times

edited 15th Dec '16 1:59:01 PM by Ultimatum

New theme music also a box

And it's done with a cast of funny animals, and that's kind of where the "kids' film" aspect comes in.

edited 15th Dec '16 2:00:42 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Yes, but it tackles adult themes. Saying it's solely for kids and adults just tolerate it just feels like pushing the stereotype that animated films are only for kids.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

I think it denigrates the whole genre of children's films by insisting that all the good ones be named "family films." It's like people aren't willing to admit they enjoy children's stuff.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

But it's not solely children's stuff. A children's film would be one made only for children.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

This implies that something made only for children cannot be enjoyable to adults as well. And who's to say that it is?

edited 15th Dec '16 2:12:26 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Something made for one type of audience can be enjoyed by others as well. See: My Little Pony. On the other hand, you *can* aim for more than one type of audience (even though one may be the "official" one.) I believe the latter is very much the case with Zootopia; most kids (at least, those young enough to like Funny Animals) would not 'get' the predator-prey relations = racism message.

My main issue is that Aldo keeps implying that films like Zootopia were only made with one audience in mind. The word "children's film" implies only one audience in mind. "Family film" at least implies a larger demographic, even if I wish there were a better term for such a thing.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

oh, okay, I'll go show a bunch of kids Duckman then, it's got a cast of funny animals, they'll like it.

edited 15th Dec '16 2:40:57 PM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

May as well show them Maus while you're at it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

I considered mentioning Cool World, but I don't think anyone even saw that. (Plus not exclusively funny animals.)

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

I think I should clarify. There's a difference in tone between your Duckman and Fritz The Cat, which are meant for adults and contain stuff you don't want kids to see; and your Zootopia, which tackles issues adults are familiar with in a way kids can understand.

And let's be honest, what kids are getting out of the film is very different from what adults get out of the film.

edited 15th Dec '16 2:48:05 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Just try to be more nuanced the first time around when you argue a point, alright?

And, for the record, from a marketing perspective, there is a difference between "family film" and "children's film". But honestly, the distinction is blurry when we take marketing out of the equation.

edited 15th Dec '16 2:50:27 PM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

Who the hell cares what marketers think? Marketing perspectives mean jack all unless you're trying to advertise something.

"Family film" is what marketers use to get adults who would be embarrassed to watch a children's movie to watch a children's movie.

edited 15th Dec '16 2:54:36 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Your two statements contradict each other.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

literally that's part of my point tho

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

Disney usually tries to target the broadest audience possible, meaning ideally all age groups, genders aso. Even the Disney Princess movies might have merch geared towards girls, but the movies are actually made in a way that boys can enjoy them, too.

There are a few exceptions, though. Aristocats and especially Home on the Range are geared more towards children, Hunchback and Atlantis are more made for the teen crowd.

The ironic thing with Winnie the Pooh is that The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh actually wasn't geared towards children only. A lot of its humour and fourth wall breaking and especially the end made it more than just a children's movie....but then they franchised the character and basically turned it into the "little kid" segment of the Disney direct to video stuff. As a result Winnie the Pooh never really had a chance. Though to be honest....I felt resentment against this movie from the get go exactly because TM Ao Wt P had such a perfect ending. I didn't want more in the actual canon.

The entire purpose of 2011's Winnie the Pooh was dumb; especially if they wanted to revive traditional animation. The countless cheapquels (with many being released theatrically) ruined any chance that film had.

I have A LOT to say about a LOT of things, and NO little minded opinions will hold MY opinion back.

I refuse to care if these films are "kids" movies or "family" movies.

From a production standpoint, the difference between a kids movie and a family movie is a cigarette, a curse word, or a "incidences of peril," which is to say that those things are the difference between a PG and a G rating, and sometimes they're the only difference. A complex plot and serious themes won't get your film a PG rating, and thus take it out of the "G" movie ghetto; you need more tangible stuff than that.

Truth to tell, "kids" movies are practically dead, at least as far as the big screen is concerned. But seriously, let's not get bogged down in this. It's a topic that can't really go anywhere.

edited 15th Dec '16 6:00:14 PM by Robbery

Ratings are an entirely different matter. For me a children's movie is one with a very simple story with no deeper meaning designed to entertain without any of the action and the violence you would find in the same kind of fare for adults. A family movie on the other hand has a meta-text which you don't have to understand to enjoy the film, and which addresses issue adults tend to be concerned about. For example, Aristocats is about a group of Cats finding their way home. That's it. Zootopia is a crime story featuring a lot of animals, but it is also a discussion of internalized racism, sexism and what it means to find your place in the world once you leave your home. Children certainly get the "don't make assumptions about people you don't know" message, but I doubt that they understand the social context which is examined in the movie, because they lack the experience.

A really good Disney movie is one you can watch growing up and it will be a different experience at different stages of your life. For example Beauty and the Beast. I understood the basics of the story just fine. But it took some time for me to truly grasp the commentary on toxic masculinity and how our societies creates their own monsters.

You know, there's no such thing as a "family book," there's just kids' books and adult books.

Yet there are kids' books that are as interesting to the adult mind as to kids - those that have bits that you only recognize when you reread it as an adult, or (rarely) one that works as well on an adult level as it does on a child's.

I don't see why it should be any different with other media.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

That is because books which are actually geared towards children are called "picture books" or "books for early readers". The so called "children's books" tend to be suitable for all ages, even though they are officially written with 10 to 12 year olds in mind as main demographic. Same with the "young adult" novels, they address specifically teens, but are readable no matter how old you are.

The only reason why there are no "family books" is because the implication of family movies is "you can watch it with your whole family"....when was the last time you read a book with the whole family? Reading books is something you do alone.

All the same, I think the whole "family film" thing is still crap meant to get adults who would never sit down to watch a children's film to do so.

I don't see why it's so important that animated films must be family films at the very least and not just kids' films. If it brings associations of low-grade crap, well, think past the stereotype, and remember that stuff like A Troll In Central Park counts as a family film as well.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

FUCK MY POST GOT DELETED FUCK.

I agree with Aldo, people seem to think he's insulting Zootopia by saying its a kids film, but its more insulting that you guys seem to think movies that handle stuff maturely and with a less babyish bent is not a kids movie. Kids can have maturity and darkness and still appeal to adults yet still be a children's movie.

Its really sad that people seem to think Children's media is only Peppa Pig or whatever. Sure there are Family Movies that are genuinely a bit too much for children to watch alone, like say, the final Harry Potter movies. I love kids media and hate that people constantly understimate them.Im really sorry if I do come across as rude but Im REALLY passionate about stuff like this.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

Calling a family film a kids film when it is not specifically directed towards a younger audience is misleading at best, outright incorrect at worst.

It's not a quality thing, it's an audience thing. There are other aspects involved, like tone and execution, but all that follows from the author/director/etc's approach towards catering to the intended audience of the work: it's is certainly possible for a film to handle mature themes and be a kids film. Just like it is entirely possible for a film to be entirely "childish" and still be focused for adults. The difference between a kids film and a "family" (though for accuracy's sake I'd say that that's also misleading, as a family is in itself a different demographic of its own as well) film lies in the fact that an adult audience is the Periphery Demographic for the former, and an intended audience of the latter.

Because of this, it's highly risky, to say the least, to assume animated films or ones that utilize certain tropes associated with less serious themes are inherently directed towards children - it's a misconception that's already too ubiquitous these days - for one, it carries with it a lot of old fashioned ideas about what kids of entertainment should or shouldn't be offered to adult audiences, and its one more rooted in the commercialism of the entertainment industry than is entirely healthy. It's also, on a tangential note, a risky but likewise common to assume folklore adaptations are strictly directed towards children as well - Disney is known for both.

That said, I will say that because of that misconception bleeding into the actual industry of animation production, most animated movies these days really are more intended to be kids movies than family movies or general entertainment.

edited 16th Dec '16 12:06:28 AM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.