No, the other one.
It's not harming the page, and with the caption, it illustrates the trope. The caption is essentially an arrow pointing at her. Not a JAFAAC.
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Perpetually Confused
I'm meh on the picture. She looks too much like an Extra, I am worried it could lead to confusion.
Is she even an example? I admittedly haven't watched much Welcome Back Kotter at all, and that was years and years ago, but I don't recall her having even the minimal involvement in any plot demanded by the trope in any episode I ever saw.
edited 11th Apr '13 2:44:25 PM by Leaper
Zzzzzzzzzz
She doesn't have even minimal importance in any plot. That's what makes her a Living Prop.
Morn is not a living Prop. He's a character who doesn't have a lot to do in most episodes, but he got A Day in the Limelight episode
Any example of a Living Prop is going to be just a face, because that's what they are. If they are a recognizable, developed character at all, they aren't a Living Prop.
edited 11th Apr '13 2:59:26 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
No, the other one.
I'm not too familiar, but I think Morn was an example, until expanded upon.
We don't have a trope for Extra, though I'm not sure I see the difference between this and Recurring Extra.
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
But is this person even a "character," or just an extra that comes up more than once? Does she have any lines whatsoever? Does she ever do anything on screen at all besides just sit around?
Those are the questions I was getting at.
Zzzzzzzzzz
Please read the parts of the definition I put in bold. Here, let me repeat them for you:
- don't actually have any involvement with the plot except as Padding,
- whose only purpose is to create a certain sense of stability (after all, you wouldn't expect the bartender to be a different person every single time you visit the same bar)
- or to fill seats that would reasonably always be occupied by the same people (your classmates will remain the same throughout the school year.)
- ...they just stand there in the background,
- as if they are a permanent part of the scenery that might as well be a living prop.
Nothing there about having plot importance, lines, character development, or anything else. They are Living Props.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:20:35 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
This is why I figure we shouldn't have a picture at all.
Perpetually Confused
Most of that matches Recurring Extra though.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:20:14 PM by Ghilz
Yes, no involvement in the plot except as padding. That means that there MUST be SOME involvement in the plot, no matter how small, or (s)he is a Recurring Extra (by my reading).
Zzzzzzzzzz
^^^ That's like saying that a facial expression trope shouldn't have a picture because it would be "Just a face".
^ Padding is something that has no importance. A recurring extra doesn't usualy have an y importance, but may interact with the main characters in some way. A Living Prop could be replaced by a cardboard cutout with no real change in their effect on the main characters.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:24:14 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Perpetually Confused
Im just curious whats the difference between this trope and recurring extra. I am not sure how what I said led you to believe that.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:23:16 PM by Ghilz
Zzzzzzzzzz
Caret miscount, sorry, Ghilz. Fixed now.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:24:50 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
But isn't an extra (as in Recurring Extra) by definition the kind of character as defined in Living Prop? I think that's where a lot of my and Ghilz's confusion comes from.
Perpetually Confused
The description disagrees with you on the interaction point. From the page:
The more i read the more I am seeing the difference between those two tropes as so minor it can just be handwaved with Tropes Are Flexible.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:29:18 PM by Ghilz
A facial expression picture would illustrate the trope, though - a picture can't demonstrate Living Prop because by definition a picture couldn't show lines or actions, and thus can't show the lack thereof.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:32:43 PM by Yinyang107
Zzzzzzzzzz
No, an extra is any person who is a background character. "A background actor or extra is a performer in a film, television show, stage, musical, opera or ballet production, who appears in a nonspeaking, nonsinging, or nondancing capacity, usually in the background (for example, in an audience or busy street scene)."
If you want to get technical, according to SAG rules, an extra can have a line or lines, but no more than six words total. They do not have to be SAG union members, and they are not credited.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Zzzzzzzzzz
Ghilz: right before the part you quoted is this:
Perpetually Confused
Yes but an extra can interact so long as they don't speak (Handing out tickets, stuff like that). Thye can be even talked to by the main cast.
So I still ask, where does one stops being a Recurring Extra and enter Living Prop?
Perpetually Confused
On the inconvenienced part you quoted Maddie: I feel that's an artifact from when the trope was called "Yuppie Couple" who were the couple in Gargoyles who always had bad crap happen to them (And for the record, spoke a lot, so not extras). Remember the trope was renamed and all that in the days before TRS.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:38:50 PM by Ghilz
On extras vs props, I figure an extra might say "Something on sensors, Captain" whereas a prop never would, they'd just occupy a seat. In fact Morn probably fits the "extra" category more, in the later season. He doesn't get lines but he does get actions, particularly in Who Mourns for Morn.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:41:28 PM by Yinyang107
Zzzzzzzzzz
Yes, yes, Yinyang107 Yes. Thank you. That's it.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:45:28 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Okay, so to make sure, there is a significant difference to their story function? Because if there isn't, then Living Prop is just Recurring Extra With Lines.
Zzzzzzzzzz
No, a Living Prop has no lines. They are there to put an appropriate body in the space. They could be replaced by a cardboard cutout with no effect on the rest if the show. A Recurring Extra can have lines, but only very few.
edited 11th Apr '13 3:54:34 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
A case of JAFAAC in which you can barely see the face and the caption literally says "this face is an example of the trope":See the blonde in the back? She's a living prop.
I propose we remove the picture from the page entirely; if we don't, we need an example that at least (say) 75% of tropers will recognize. My Fan Myopia leads me to propose Morn (of Deep Space Nine) if we don't want to go with nothing.
edited 11th Apr '13 2:33:16 PM by Yinyang107