The General Religion, Mythology, and Theology Thread

@ Gabe: And neither do people who grew up watching Time Team.

edited 17th Apr '15 3:24:18 PM by Greenmantle

British television...wow...

In-fucking-deed. That's awesome! Putin should do that instead of pretending to be an excavator himself.

Some Malaysians protested against a new church in their area, claiming that it "challenged Islam". This is why we can't have nice things. Welcome to the all new, all improved Moderate Malaysia.

Meanwhile, failed amateur pornographer/porn actor Alvin Tan has come up with a bizarre cover, or should I say, reimagining of the Azan, with the expected responses.

No, I don't think most of my countrymen understand what an internet troll is (and that's why I stay off Malaysian forums, desire to shank some posters aside). Or are particularly mature or possessed of basic intelligence. Agama ini tak boleh gunakan akal^* You can't use your head when it comes to religion

edited 22nd Apr '15 3:15:47 AM by Krieger22

I'm sorry, but that's hilariously bad, especially when one is used to the good stuff:

Haunting...

... It's supposed to be tender and awed, love and adoration, encapsulating the feeling of complete surrender to the Lord, Maker, All-Father, All-knowing, Almighty, Fair and Merciful.

[huffs indignantly] Haunting!

[grumbling] Of course it's haunting. Would be shoddy work if it weren't. Haunting! I say! Mozart's requiem ain't got nothing on this! Handel can go back to his sickbed! Haunting!

[with sheepish regret] Not that most muazzins get even close to that. [frustrated] They usually sound like fucking bleach peddlers. They probably are, too! A mediocre herald for the mediocre faithful, praying half-hearted prayers on dusty carpets under the light of weak, bare bulbs, sprouting on twisty cables from bare concrete walls that erode slightly at every touch. What's the world coming to?

Presumably when it's not just a tape recorder instead? And the problem with buildings is common to religious buildings in most of Europe — a fundraising campaign to help repair the roof of the Village Church is a minor meme in the UK.

edited 23rd Apr '15 6:13:19 AM by Greenmantle

Handle, I've had the privilege of hearing the call to prayer once in real life. I don't know if it was a good job technically or not, but yes, it was all those things, and it's also haunting. I didn't know what the words he was saying meant, but it struck me soul-deep and I can still hear it with my mind's ear, in a way that I can't hear most other things once they're over. That's "haunting".

edited 23rd Apr '15 6:59:20 AM by Madrugada

I know, I was being facetious. Haunting is exactly the right word.

The use of the word "haunting" in this context reminded me of a far less worthy Muslim example, which is the ISIS "anthem" of sorts ("My Unmah, Dawn Has Appeared") which is real life's strongest equivalent of a Villain Song (at one point the song dwells into the sound of marching troops, gunfire, and a sword's swing).

But despite that, in techinical terms, I found it to be very haunting tune and epic, almost awe-inspiring if it I didn't know its nefarious purpose.

I'm actually somewhat curious to see what Handle thinks of that tune, if it isn't too much to ask.

The first time I translated Rachid Taha's "Barra Barra" left me with that feel.

I knew the song from Black Hawk Down and was dancing to the badass beat. Then as I was getting into the dictionary and it went from, (bounce, bounce, bounce) to (stumble....wut?)

Then that kick ass beat started to feel like a studdering heartbeat of someone bleeding out.

God I love Arabic!

edited 23rd Apr '15 6:41:10 PM by Gabrael

It's auto-tuned. That's a huge point against it to begin with. It's also repetitive without really being catchy. The lyrics are trite and full of self-righteous platitudes. It's the kind of song Melkor would come up with, if he was hired as a poet by the Imperium of Man.

Then again, maybe I'm just biased because whoever posted it used Assassin's Creed artwork for the background. It doesn't get much more shallow and teenager-y than that.

Let me sum it up: it. is. shit.

And one more thing: while these lyrics were written with the 'epicness' mindset of a hollywood movie watcher, I'd like to point out that an actual 'Hero' faction would never have such a self-righteous song to it. Certainly, they would not be talking about assured victory, or about how awesome they are for not fearing war. The latter notion is preislamic, from back when tribes slaughtered each other over things like water sources.

In the grim darkness of the present day, there is only war in a few places, but damn if it isn't still tragic.

I chose the word "haunting" very carefully, fully aware of the spiritual significance of the music, despite not knowing what the words are saying (I will say the slide show could have been better- the high altitude pic and slow zoom in was ok, but then it got boring). "Haunting" can be a good thing, the way fine art, or an excellent story will haunt me. That music sounds like it would continue to inspire people, lingering in the back of their mind, long after the song is over. It's somewhat similar to Gregorian chanting in that way.

"Barra barra" is an awesome song, and when you discover what the lyrics are saying, it's even more awesome. Handle and I once tried to collaborate on a story that was to take place in the Sahara, and we were using that song as inspiration.

The ISIS song is just boring. One imagines lines of adolescent boys holding rifles, dutifully singing out of harmony, imagining the world rising up to support them, while some prune-faced choir director recites the words for them. As for villain songs, they aint got nothin' on this.

But all that's off topic. I'm not sure why bad guys have such terrible music, while devout followers of mainstream religions have such inspiring ones, but it probably has something to do with the competence level required to be a member of a violent anti-social para-military gang. Is there a correlation between the quality of the music and the sophistication of the belief system?

I remember Taira Mai (could be mistaken) posting a link to a study in some other thread on how there appears to be a correlation between the creativity of a society and its tendencies towards extremism. I think the study said that the less creative a society was, the more likely its members tended towards extremism.

Sounds as if causality could work the other way here: the more extremist the society, the likelier that a given outlet for creativity will be forbidden.

Creativity makes you think and dictators don't need people thinking. That leads to them realizing you're full of shit.

I suspect it may be a full-on vicious circle.

Will Durant proposed something similar in his ten volume study of world history.

Can anyone summarize Ibadi Islam as it contrasts with Sunni and Shia? I know Sunni is the "orthodox" one, being the path of the vast majority and taking a more "rational" approach to the religion with the idea that no-one is inherently blessed by Allah and we are only so righteous as we are able to follow the laws of the Quran, while Shiite Islam does believe in greater inherent righteousness in this sphere (sort of similar to Catholic belief that Saints were not just good Christians, that they have a special in with God).

So where does Ibadi stand?

Correction. It's not that they have a inherent specialness... thingy with God (here on Earth, at least). Saints are intercessors (and folks are only declared to be saints after death and a rigorous canonization investigation). What the tradition says it that the Saints are in Heaven with God. Then, in their state of grace, these saints pray to God on behalf of the faithful who pray to them.

edited 24th Apr '15 4:09:34 PM by Quag15

Right, the difference is that the special people in Shiite Islam are special while they're here, or so i think (could be wrong)

I wouldn't be able to tell you. I'm more familiar with Catholics than I am with Shi'a.

Who here knows anything about the Orthodox? All I ever hear about them is "they're those not-Catholic guys".

A friend of mine know a greek orthodox from college here in Panama...Does that count?

Orthodoxy's schtick is that they are more nationalist and state-aligned. They tend to get a bad rap for promoting authoritarianism and absolute monarchy, because while the Pope exercised his authority to become the dominant force in European politics, the Orthodox church suborned itself to the Byzantine Empire and to other states in their sphere (at least where they weren't utterly supplanted by Islam).