Zergling vs. X

X being a "fill in the blank" variable, although I suppose you could match it against Mega Man X if you like.

Anyway, this is an old thought experiment my brother and I used to do years ago. Essentially: what could a zergling beat? Zerglings are, of course, the weakest combat unit in Starcraft. They have 35 HP, 0 armor, and do 5 damage per hit.

However, damage scales are completely arbitrary. We're told that they have 35 HP, but in practice what this means is that they can survive 5 bursts from the Gauss Rifle of a marine, which is presumably some sort of hand-held railgun, and almost but not quite a direct hit from a siege tank. Which we're told is some sort of plasma cannon. And it needn't be said that their claws can easily tear through neosteel, whatever that is. Also takes 5 hits from the lightsaber of a zealot (they hit twice per attack). Which is to say that if you look at the lore they're actually sort of ridiculously tough?

So, uh... that's the premise. A zergling, the weakest of the weak in its own game, could probably take on a decently sized modern military force, simply by virtue of its insane durability. It seems obvious to me that it's nearly immune to conventional gunpowder bullets anyway. Assuming we take sci-fi technobabble literally. So while it's easy to come up with things that could kill a zergling, not the least of which is anything from a sci-fi setting of a similar tech level, the far more interesting question is what couldn't kill a zergling. What video game settings could a zergling solo, thanks to the difference in scale? It's a satisfying feeling to be playing some fantasy game or whatever and think "yeah, a zergling could just kill everyone in this world, no problem."

To start it off, I contend that a zergling could kill everyone in Fire Emblem except the dragons, maybe. It's hard to imagine a Silver Sword putting a scratch on its carapace.

edited 25th Mar '13 1:52:33 PM by Clarste

Zergling vs Tyranid Gaunts.

Can you shoot em' in the head, I wonder?

I assume that's a natural comparison to make, but I must admit I'm unfamiliar with the details of Warhammer 40k. Although from what I've heard it might be a curbstomp in one way or another.

Somehow I doubt their head is any less armored than the rest of the body, but I suppose we can assume that a portion of their durability comes from being able to survive damage to less important areas.

I was more wondering if the head has any vital areas guaranteeing (well uh, more or less) instant incapacitation and death like for many other animals.

It should be pointed out that a zergling (in a cutscene) was killed by being run over by a truck.

I'm gonna say "probably" because they kind of make a deal out of something else that doesn't at one point in Heart of the Swarm. So I think we can assume that a zergling without a working head dies.

I thought of that cutscene, but I think it's pretty clear that the zergling isn't dead from that. It's still gurgling and moving and doesn't looked damaged at all so it's hard to imagine it as "dying", although perhaps that can be attributed to lazy modellers in the early days of CG animation.

edited 25th Mar '13 2:10:32 PM by Clarste

Honestly, I think most fantasy settings oculd take them by virtue of well... Magic. Not to mention enchanted weapons and such.

Unfortunately, I can't really weigh in on this because the Starcraft universe is very much Units Not to Scale. If there had been some sort of action game set in the starcraft universe then we'd get a much better feel of how dangerous individual units are. But Blizzard are a bunch of perfectionists so they'd rather not release something fun.

What is magic if not summoning physical forces? A zergling certainly doesn't have a "magic resistance" stat, but what's the difference between a fireball and a plasma cannon other than plasma being hotter than fire? Either way it's just heat. Likewise cold or crushing or "magic missiles".

I do think they would be vulnerable to mental or spiritual attacks though, if those kinds of effects are explicitly used by the setting.

Anyway, as I said in the first post, it's really easy to come up with things that could kill a zergling. What can't, while still seeming dangerous in its own context?

edited 25th Mar '13 2:12:29 PM by Clarste

Really, I don't think much can't kill a Zergling. Remember that SCVs can also hurt them. I also kind of got the impression that the "gauss" rifles used by marines were a.) actually chemburners (note the shell casings and muzzle flashes) and b.) optimized for volume of fire as opposed to single-shot power (that'd be the Ghost's forte).

However, if you wanted something dangerous in its own setting that would be little to no threat to a Zergling, I'd have to say a zombie. Zombies might have slightly greater than average strength, but they almost certainly wouldn't tear through a Zergling's carapace, and I doubt they could infect the Zerg. Also, they're squishy.

Oh, also, carp.

edited 25th Mar '13 2:36:53 PM by Balmung

SC Vs have fusion cutters, whatever the hell those are. They certainly sound high tech though.

I'm pretty sure it's basically a plasma torch or a glorified version thereof.

FUSION!

Well, it's certainly hard to tell what exactly these kinds of things are, so maybe I'm overrating generic futuristic sounding technology, but you do have to keep in mind that it's essentially construction/mining equipment. Which are, well, pretty strong actually. Maybe bad range, maybe hard to use as a weapon, but something that needs to cut through tough materials like minerals or steel beams and the like is going to have a lot of cutting power. It's not like a drill is any less dangerous than a bullet if you stick it in your face.

edited 25th Mar '13 2:45:58 PM by Clarste

I *think* I should note that fire is very killy against Zerglings. Firebats just use flamethrowers, and they're extremely good at killing Zerglings dead (bonus damage against their armor type because the fire seeps through the carapace easily). So yes, fantasy settings with fire magic can presumably do well against Zerglings. Maybe not their non-mages, but mages can probably make it.

Firebat use plasma "flamethrowers" with fuel stored in a magnetic field. It's hardly "normal" fire although that doesn't mean magic can't make a flame hot enough to have the same effect. Plasma is, at minimum, several times hotter than a standard flame.

Frankly, the whole point of this thought experiment is to realize that everything that happens in Starcraft (and probably other sci-fi series) is scaled up by random technobabble that makes it sound futuristic despite not looking significantly different. However, as a side effect, that makes everything they fight against similar scaled up in power.

edited 25th Mar '13 3:09:30 PM by Clarste

Just call in the Imperial Guard. Problem solved.

...you do realize I'm talking about a single zergling right? Not a whole army and especially not the rest of the swarm. A single mook. I think calling in the Imperial Guard might be overkill.

Clar's right.

Exterminatus the planet instead.

Fire is already technically plasma. The flames the Firebats shoot are, based on their colour, perfectly ordinary flames. They aren't blue or white hot or anything, just ordinary orange.

Just because there's technobabble doesn't mean it's actually more advanced.

Really, so far as I can tell, despite the technobabble, human small arms haven't advanced in any appreciable way in Starcraft.

edited 25th Mar '13 3:29:29 PM by Balmung

Hmm, it seems the difference between me and you is that I put more stock in the flavor text and you put more stock in the art design.

However, I think it's pretty obvious that if they're going to go through the trouble of storing plasma in their backpack, it's probably hotter than a modern flamethrower. Unless we're just assuming that everyone is an idiot in the future, I would expect the resemblance to modern tech is simply due to the art designers favoring familiar imagery.

Ok, how about just the Imperial guard stationed in the Imperial city of Cyrodiil?

......that is what you meant, right?

I'm not an expert on the Elder Scrolls series, but from what I've seen I think they'd probably lose, given my interpretation of the zergling that Balmung is challenging.

edited 25th Mar '13 3:38:17 PM by Clarste

I dunno, the cyrodil imperial guard take on some pretty mean beasties. They fight off a demonic invasion for one. They'd probably lose if it weren't for the Player Character, but there where a lot of them.

I think a lot of this is dependent on how smart a zergling is. Is it attached to an overmind or whatever they are? Does it have the instinct to pick people off one by one Xenomorph style?

I'm challenging your interpretation and the flavour text because it entirely and blatantly contradicts the actual gameplay. See: "Gauss" rifles that act entirely like chemburners, "plasma flamethrowers" that still shoot orange-hot fire, and several other things. I mean, think about how slowly Battlecruisers shoot. They seem to have one very slow lazer instead of several batteries of the things.

Really, the only Terran ground units to show any real improvement (or at least alteration) in weapons technology are the Siege Tanks, and really, they seem underwhelming, considering that modern tanks could probably kill an Ultralisk from outside of the effective range of a arty-mode Siege Tank (never mind that 120mm isn't that impressive for an artillery caliber, given that we use that for DIRECT fire). Actually, the more that I think about it, the Siege Tank is in every way possible a step back from a modern MBT. Two small (80mm) guns are less effective than one big (120mm) gun and turning into a light artillery piece is less useful than just bringing an actual 155mm artillery tube.

The marines carry what amounts to an M14 with a boosted rate of fire, so far as firepower is concerned.

If the Terrans can kill the Zerg with small arms (and vehicles) that basically fail to offer any substantial improvement over modern weapon systems, I fail to see how a single Zergling could hope to solo any setting more threatening than Pikmin, and maybe even not that.

The Zergling basically equivalent to a really fast dude in a suit of armour with a sword that can survive scraping apart anything, but offers no real improvement in stopping power. It might outmatch a regular knight or something, but 20 knights will manage to bring it down. Similarly, a few dudes with assault rifles wouldn't find it that hard to bring down a Zergling.

edited 25th Mar '13 4:08:06 PM by Balmung