Feminist Coven

Feminist here!

With all due respect, isn't that hypocritical and counterproductive?

Same here.

I think the subset Morven was thinking about was TER Fs (or radfems in general; the line is often blurry, to be honest), like Cathy Brennan and Femonade and their ilk who argue blatantly stupid stuff like sexual pleasure being a social construct designed by men to control women.

They're hateful, terrible people and I award them no respect.

I'd rather stick with Vanessa Valenti or Rebecca Watson (I dislike her fans, though) anyday.

Also, male feminist here.

Yeah,I feel like trans-exclusionaries are just reinforcing the gender norms that feminism is supposed to fight against.

They absolutely are.

Feminism, AFAIU, is not a monolithic ideology, not even on the subject of gender norms. What all strands of feminism have in common is that they all fight against injustice towards women (i.e. misogynism); they subsequently diverge on what counts as misogynism, what counts as the root of said misogynism, whether the movement should limit itself to women's issues, and more topics of debate than I can remember right now. One could reasonably argue that feminism isn't about overturning everything that is accepted as the norm by a male-dominated society; that way lies what is commonly called "radical feminism", IINM.

edited 16th Aug '14 1:08:43 PM by MarqFJA

Feminist here!

I'm egalitarianist-leaning, so I suppose I qualify...

ok, im the only one who see a trend in feminist circle about strong protagonist?

i meant people complain about how lara croff or samus look crying or showing a lot of emotion or having to become badass when male protagonist are already badass and almost never show anything near emotions in games.

tis complain will be good, except that miss the part that most time male protagonist are just wish fulliment chararter with no personality and are boring as hell(shooter are really guillty about this) and have not deep, it looks like people wants feminist chararter be like that

what do you think about it?

I've actually noticed a backlash against that, feminists saying that writing well-written multi-faceted female characters is more important then physically tough emotionless ones.

Walanna tuning in, I'm a feminist. I'm especially interested in how media portrays minorities overall. Pet peeve of mine is the "Strong female character". Like I once read in a blog entry; Is Sherlock Holmes a good character? Yes. Would you describe him as "Strong?". That isn't the first thing that comes to mind, really. So I have an issue with the idea that you could just throw her a gun and suddenly she is a good character. ^^

also there is a quite weird trent to made black woman the strong chararter with a permanent angry face....

or i dont know maybe it just me

I think the idea isn't that female characters need to be physically strong. But that they need to be strong as a character. Like, they need to be interesting, and diverse.

Strong character means they're contributing to the story and aren't just flat characters and eye candy. They shouldn't be dependent on others etc. The characterization has to be strong not their figthing prowess. It's just that a lot of genres deal with combat and to contribute to those stories you have to be strong as well but that is not universal.

it depends in the genre, in a action movie, being a action girl is required to be a strong chararter, in a more political movie or series it requires peole to do things

the issues is that many of this strong chararter become one dimensional since it only do things, like a plot mover and nothing else

I read an interesting argument once on a feminist blog that despite the "men with tits" criticism of "strong female characters", simply flipping the gender of a well-written, multifaceted male character "accidentally" creates a good well-written, multifaceted female character by default. The example they gave was the character Commander Shepard of Mass Effect, who - despite a couple of different, pretty insignificant lines of dialogue - doesn't change at all whether or not s/he is a man or a woman.

because many feminist miss the point, is that many male chararter are badly writen or simple wish fulliment to the public, this is true in shooters or action movies, where what measure is not badass is in full efect

your example with shepard work because the writers focus on him/her being a chararter FIRST, that is really important

edited 22nd Aug '14 11:00:14 PM by unknowing

This was also done with Ripley in Alien.

edited 22nd Aug '14 10:44:16 PM by LogoP

I think of it as my obligation as a male in a culture with some fairly sexist, sometimes outright misogynistic elements to be a feminist. It's not just about woman having their lives improved, but about everyone being on a better, level playing field, regardless of how they are seen or see themselves.

So yeah, solidarity, y'all.

ok i was waching one livejournal about Olivia pope, the protagonist of scandal and there is one line that stuck with me

" women and particularly women of color are rarely such prominence as lead characters, and are sometimes flattened by misogynistic demand that they must flawless to be worth our time and attention, never mind affection."

i have to agree with this part, many minorites are so rarely put in a lead rol and sometimes writes are forced to use positive discrimination or make the chararter a bordeline mary sue in order to avoid unfortune implication or crys of racist,sexism,whatever

Of course right now that is chainging, because they are feminist roles who acept that they chararter should have flaws that make them insteresting, so is good step after all

This is a good comic.

That comic threw me into kind of a big depressive fit when I first read it, and I'm not even anything close to a pick-up artist. I'm not sure if that makes it good or bad. Or terrifyingly good.

Dunning-Kruger Effect mate. If you notice it, it doesn't apply to you.

I don't mean it got me worried that I'm some sort of sleazy creep, but the put-down the guy received in the comic is still entirely too too painfully true. Disturbingly so, really.