Mass Effect: Andromeda

Of course, we all know that Anthem certainly won't be anything's Swan Song. Because I didn't even know it existed until Andromeda was killed for it.

Nobody cares about Anthem, EA. Nobody.

Technically that's an argument in favor of Anthem being the Swan Song :-P If Anthem crashed hard enough I would not be surprised EA might end Bioware and either shift DA 4 to another studio or just cancel it, after Bioware having 2 "flops" back to back.

Bioware passing away peacefully might even be a best case scenario.

I'd rather see Dragon Age die out as a franchise than see it filled with loot boxes, microtransactions, and Premium Conversation Choices.

Technically the first two have already come to pass, even if only in the multiplayer portion.

I forget that's a thing. <.<

Wait, what Dragon Age game has lootboxes? Or even microtransactions? They got dlcs, and map pack. Didn't know they had the later, I avoid the multiplayer.

If they confined all their loot boxes and whatnot to multiplayer, I don't think anyone would care much. People sometimes play multiplayer for years after the game comes out, and they need a way to recoup server costs. It's when they push it into the single player that it becomes a short-sighted cash grab.

Confining microtransactions and loot boxes to multiplayer means that you can enjoy the single-player campaign without ever running into them, which is great if you exclusively play the single-player. But microtransactions and loot boxes in multiplayer games is a problem too, and arguably an even worse one than in single-player because the competitive element encourages players to Pay to Win.

"THAT guy has the Widow sniper rifle. That's why he's kicking your ass so bad. And for just $4.99, you too can have a chance at maybe obtaining the same gun! Whoops, you got a halfway-decent SMG. Try again!"

Pull that shit in single-player and I can go, "Okay. Guess I'm not using that weapon," and make do without it. In multiplayer, you have two options when shit like this is pulled: either you pay the money or you always lose to players who did, period. Multiplayer uses microtransactions and loot-boxes to hold player enjoyment at ransom.

Which is not to say that's how Bioware's multiplayer has done it. I don't know how Bioware's multiplayer has done it. I don't play Bioware's multiplayer. But that is how microtransactions and loot boxes in multiplayer games are often more intrusive and vicious than in single-player.

Bioware multiplayer in Mass Effect 3, Andromeda, and Dragon Age: Inquisition is all Horde Mode. That's basically just player teams battling the AI for a set period of time. The multiplayer modes have thriving communities as well.

What Melon said. Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "loot boxes," because none of the Bioware games have used them. You usually pay for cosmetic things or for new characters—and while these new characters can be better than the base ones, they're usually Difficult, but Awesome, and you can do fine without them. And again, since you're all on the same side, it's not a huge deal if one player has a major advantage over the others.

I hate pretty much all forms of competitive multiplayer, but I've played Horde Mode and Dawn of War II's Last Stand more than a few times, and played a lot of Warframe with my cousin.

People have been predicting the doom of Bioware under EA ever since they purchased the company years ago. It was more or less inevitable, because EA is a shit company that poisons everything it touches with its naked, unrestrained avarice. I saw the writing on the wall for Visceral too as soon as I heard about what happened to DS 3.

I am actually genuinely going to be distraught if and when the closure of Bioware is announced. It was Bioware that introduced me to Western RPGs through Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and KotOR, while the Mass Effect trilogy remains one of my favorite series ever. It'll be a sad day for gaming if Bioware closes its doors.

They aren't loot boxes? What would you call them, then?

Also, regarding Bioware multiplayer and the loot boxes (because that's what they really are, let's face it), the only real reason blowback against it hasn't been intense is exactly because the MP for all 3 games that have had it are Horde Mode. It doesn't matter if the Level 20 Krogan Gladiator wielding a Dhan X and maxed-out equipment got it by whaling, since he's going to be on your side anyway. If any of these games had competitive multiplayer you can be sure that people would have been way angrier with Bioware for doing that. It was never that hard to farm for the loot boxes, thankfully, but it would have still been infuriating to go up against a whale and you're stuck wielding the base classes and barely upgraded weapons.

It might be possible for some of the Bioware guys to eventually set up a new studio if they're up for it at all. That's a fairly common thing in this industry, though obviously there's big risks attached to starting up something like that. And they wouldn't be able to take ME and DA with them so that would be a big loss.

When I say "loot boxes," I think of the stuff from Middle-earth: Shadow of War: Semi-randomized boxes of loot/minions that are meant to give you an edge. It feels differently than an entirely new character that requires an entirely new playstyle, yet is completely optional and in fact might go completely against your playstyle. When I'm playing games like that, I usually don't buy the extra characters just because I'm not a fan of the weirder playstyles that they generally require.

And I don't think it's fair to say "well, if these games were competitive multiplayer people would complain more." That's kinda the point. They found a way to make money that doesn't piss their players off. What's wrong with that?

Uhh you get power ups, weapons and more powerful versions of said weapons in the boxes you buy in addition to new characters.

Mass Effect 3 was (one of?) the first to do lootboxes in a 60$ title and got away with it cause other problems pissed people off more.

Nothing's wrong with it; if anything, I salute it. At the very least even the most expensive loot boxes in all of the Bioware games were easily farmed, so there is that. I don't see how it's unfair to point out that Bioware avoided (another) source of complaint by making their multiplayer (and by extension, their loot box system) purely cooperative.

I don't recall people complaining much about the third game's loot box system. Even the Spectre boxes only required like 3-4 games on the easiest difficulty to get, so it's not like players would have had a hard time farming them. Even now I don't really hear a lot of complaints about Bioware's system.

So what I'm hearing is that the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer is Tier 2 on the chart?

It just sounded like you were looking for something to complain about. "Maybe it's not bad right now, but it easily could be!" I apologize for misreading your tone.

Not at all, I can see how my post could have been misconstrued in that way.

I mean, I guess you could say that? That chart seems more geared towards competitive games, like CoD, where some microtransactions definitely came across as Pay-2-Win.

TBH, I kinda dig the way the drop system of ME 3 works. You start with basic yet usable classes and equipment, and the more you play the more you keep unlocking. You can't outright go and buy level X weapons and the specialized characters, you play and little be little more choices open to you. Via RNG, after all, but the gameplay is Co Op anyway.

If it involved Pv P, it would be a different story, but the way it is, the "I'll play another round so I can try another box" works quite fine.

I heard a novel was recently released that concluded the missing Ark plotline. Anybody here get around to reading it yet?

The Ark novel isn’t coming out until June of next year. However, it looks like N. K. Jemisin ‘s novel, about how Cora met Alec, coming out next month.

Oh, guess the article I read misunderstood the announcement. Oh well. Pity that the game will only receive closure in a book... and we all know how well that went with the last few Mass Effect novels.

I dunno, Annihilation is going to be written by Catherynne M Valente, so I'm cautiously optimistic. Her novels are more Fantasy / Mythpunk, and I don't think she's ever tried her hand on a sci-fi setting before, but I enjoyed her novels, and I have hope for this one.

edited 27th Oct '17 5:19:10 PM by ITNW1989

I think the ME-3 method of microtransactions is the best way to do it. Foremost, any imbalance it would cause are mostly irrelevant in Horde Mode-style gameplay. You get more powerful teammates, oh the horror! Even with something like Halo 5 with pvp, the only benefits you get beyond cosmetic differences are in specific playlists (warzone). Those playlists are tiered so that you have to earn your power weapons rather than get them from the start, and the chaotic nature of those games doesn't mean you'll easily get a killionaire. The developers also said that because of the microtransactions they are able to do free monthly updates, so that basically those individual players who want to spend $1,000 on loot boxes are benefiting the entire community. One of the problems with the prior paid DLC system was that you progressively had fewer members of the community to play with, and in random matchmaking would rarely play on those new maps.