Japan and living there

You know, I'm quite interested in stuffs happening in Japan. I'm not saying that all I know about Japan is like what is shown in anime, like it's wonderful and Crazy Awesome. But everywhere, all I hear about Japan are about how horrible and harsh it is to live there, like it's a country you need to avoid at all cost unless you're being a tourist. I get the feeling that these statements are just made by those who wants to scare various Japanophiles away, but...

Can anyone tell me ACTUAL positive things we could get by living in Japan (outside the anime influence, that is)? Because all I hear in the internet are mostly the harsh and negative things...

edited 28th Dec '12 5:40:16 PM by BestOf

I have only ever visited, and can thus offer only vague traveler's advice, such as don't buy the sake in little glass jars.

If you are into historical buildings, I wouldn't recommend it. Also note the air pollution, baffling customs, a diet consisting of anything that squelches out of the ocean, and everyone over 35 dresses like its The '70s. Also, Japan is no more "anime" than Britain is "Doctor Who".

On the other hand, Tokyo is consistently ranked a highly liveable city, life expectancy is high, there are plenty of characterful little areas in the countryside and in the cities, Japanese chicks dig Westerners, and if you are into modern steel-and-glass urban sprawl then it is a nice enough place.

Still not a patch on auld Glesgae though

edited 29th Dec '12 1:29:07 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

I've only ever visited. Thought everything was very clean and organized. Much like Korea's transit system, the Japanese transit system was fantastic; I would weep to see such subways in Toronto.

I have heard much complaining about Japanese culture, but from native Japanese people who have chosen not to live there any longer (notably, women). I have the feeling that without the cultural expectations, a foreigner may have an easier time in Japan than some Japanese people would.

I will say this - forget your expectations about racism when you go to a foreign country. You will occasionally meet a racist Japanese person in Japan, just like you will occasionally meet a Korean racist in Korea and an American racist in the United States. That's where racist people often hang out, in their native countries. If you've never experienced racism from a foreigner before, that is probably because the racist foreigners chose not to move to your country. (This is a sore point for me, a white Latino, who's had to make this point to WASP North Americans complaining about racism in South Korea while living there. Yes, there are some racist Koreans in Korea. Where did you think the racist Koreans lived? Manitoba?)

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

I take it you've read Cracked list of 5 things nobody tells you about living in Japan?

Yeah, I mostly hear it described as "The coolest country in the world as long as you don't actually live there."

I'd love to visit once. Maybe even live there for a few years, just to make it happen. I wouldn't for the life of me raise my kids there, though.

I have 3 cousins that visited there for about a week or so, and they liked it, and they're black so if anyone was the least bit racist they would get it. But I have heard that it can be rough to live there long-term if you're black (though I think it's worse to be black in China).

Compared to Georgia?

(I ask because I saw the look on a black American's face in Korea when a white American teacher was complaining about the racism he faced. I wish I'd taken a picture.)

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

I haven't been there, but I've trained with countless people who have been there. I've also taken Japanese language classes with people who lived there for several years.

If you go for the martial arts, get in touch with someone who has actually trained in the country so they can tell you which schools are good and which ones you should avoid. The old-school martial artists, notably karateka, are still notorious for intentionally taking foreigners and giving them harsher training. Some of the clubs in the universities can be excessively harsh to anyone, Japanese and foreigners alike. Tokyo University is fairly well-known for its brutal karate clubs, but not all of them are like this. I know I just said I've never been to Japan, but classmates and instructors of mine who have can see a noticeable difference in their technique and health due to which school they toured while traveling there.

One guy came pretty sharp and strong, and another student came back with chronic back and knee pain. Guess which one went to the more abusive school?

Never been there, but I sometimes also get the feeling that there is a large part of Hype Backlash in prooving how much Japan "secretly" sucks.

For example, there is the now common factoid that actually, in the "original Japanese", otaku means "pathetic smelly basement-dweller", and only a misguided weeaboo would use it for themselves.

Which seems to be contradicted by the fact that the former Japanese prime minister referred to himself as one on the account of him reading lots of manga, by the survey where 25.5% of Japan's population identified themselves as otaku (more than americans who consider themselves a geek), or the fact that the anime/manga/light novel/visual novel industry officially and professionally refers to itself as "the otaku industry".

edited 29th Dec '12 2:44:16 PM by Ever9

I'm surprised no one has noted the horrendously high living costs and crime problems existing across Japan. It's a part of everyday problem of living there. Cops there are nearly powerless too

What profit is it to a man, when he gains his money, but loses his internet? Anonymous 16:26 I believe...

I was stationed in Yokosuka*

for about 18 months earlier in my career. I can't give highlights outside of that area, since I didn't have much opportunity to travel. So, some highlights as an American living there:

• English signage is pretty much everywhere populated; English speaking is much rarer. I did pick up a little bit of Japanese, but certainly nowhere near frequency, and I did make it a point to memorize the names of locations I needed to find my way home.
• Travelling by bus and train is easy, even for Americans, and it's far easier than attempting to drive. Owning a car is a major hassle, starting with the fact you cannot legally buy a vehicle without proof of parking. The only downside to the trains is trying to go somewhere during rush hour, in which case I really hope you have no personal space boundaries whatsoever.
• The country is rather picturesque, and there are lots of neat places to see as a tourist, including some of the different areas of Tokyo. It does take time to get around via public transportation though.
• It is expensive, slightly more than most of America. At least in my area, I'd say the costs were about the same as living in Hawaii. It was enough that we received a cost-of-living extra pay equal to $800-$1000 a month, depending on how the exchange rate was fluctuating.
• Racism never seemed to be a huge deal to me; ironically the spot where I encountered the most racists was only a few blocks away from base. The couple of times I did get away from the area to see more of Tokyo or other things in the area, people were very polite and helpful in spite of the language barrier.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

edit edit edit : Meh, re-blanking this.

edited 30th Dec '12 9:17:33 PM by Imca

I lived there for a couple of years.

Its not cheap. Thats the number one problem.

I liked the poeple over there... I think many Gaijins feel dissappointed because they put too much expectations on it and expect it to be perfect or something. Japan is a country made of human beings, and many of them tend to be quite dry and sarcastic, so thats something that sometimes scares people away, but there are alo many mildly silly and very friendly people... They tend to be very polite and usually like foreigners. Crime was never a porblem for me and I can say without a doubt is by far the safest place I have ever lived at.

The food is great, public transportation couldnt be more convenient, there a thousand of turistic destinations, and many museums are free.

I guess it all comes down to who you travel with and who you meet over there, and what you do over there. If you go to a big city like Tokyo you will find pretty much everything one could imagine, and if you go to a small town then you shouldnt expect people to be all that open minded, do they will be very corteous still.

So, as I said, the number one problem is that its a really expensive place really.

edited 29th Dec '12 5:36:15 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

Yeah, "don't hold onto expectations" and "have money ready on hand" are two guidelines to keep in mind wherever you go.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

So in short, seems that it's too complicated to simplify into just good or just bad. :p

Like any other place really. :3

ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ

Also, I felt I was more descriminated against in the U.S than in Japan.

I guess many japanese still look at the U.S with scorn (who could blame them).

But as the older generation dies out I guess it will become less common.

Also the mayority of the population absolutely love everything foreign to the point of exentricity.

Edit: When it comes to racism Spain is the worst. Avoid Madrid if you arent white or a native speaker of another language.

edited 29th Dec '12 5:47:33 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

I lived in Japan for about a year from June 2011 to August 2012, so I guess I might as well give my two cents. Or rather than that, I want to give my two cents, because I often get annoyed with people online when it comes to Japan. A lot of people really do only focus on the bad and I feel like they somewhat misrepresent the country and more importantly the Japanese people, some of whom I count as among my friends and so I feel a little insulted on their behalf. That is of course not to say that there isn't some truth to some of the negative things that are said about the country, society etc. it's just that the whole thing is much more complex than that. Overall I enjoyed my stay in Japan, but I can't in good faith say that I would move there permanently unless I had a good reason. On the other hand I can't say that I would find it a horrible place to live either and indeed I didn't while I was there. It had its good points, bad points and interesting/surprising points. So without further ado, let me get to the whole point of this post - my experience living in Japan. It's going to be somewhat long, so strap yourselves in.

External stuff (society, prices, food etc.): Japan is of course a first-world country and if you go there from another first-world country you can expect roughly the same standards of living, though the details may vary. For me (I am from Denmark) the society in general is too much on the capitalist side, it doesn't have enough support for poor people, the minimum wage is too low etc. On the other hand families are somewhat more closely-knit and tend to help each other out more. I lived in a somewhat smaller town (about 50.000 making it fairly big by Danish standards actually) in Fukuoka prefecture. The price of living was probably a little cheaper compared to Denmark, however we have one of the highest price-points in the world so it would probably be a little on the expensive side for most people.

The good: The food. I fucking love Japanese food. It's incredibly tasty and it's generally pretty healthy. There are a lot of restaurants where you can eat a proper normal meal for a reasonable price, as opposed to just fast-food joints and high-class places. I really, really miss that food now. The cites are generally nice and clean (but goddammit, they lack public trashcans) and if you get outside the big cities, the Japanese countryside and nature is often quite beautiful. I also tend to enjoy the traditional Japanese aesthetic, however a lot of contemporary buildings which is the majority of most towns (in Japan a 10 year old apartment building is generally considered old, it boggles the mind) are really boring and unimaginative.Still I tend to enjoy the look of most smaller Japanese towns. The country is also generally very safe.

The bad: Bureaucracy. Not just in public institutions, though the first time I went to a.hospital I had to do a whole lot of paperwork, but also in private companies. For example I had to get a two-year contract for my internet, despite the fact that I could only use it for a year and than had to pay a penalty in order to cancel it before time. I had the same sort of problem with my cell phone. My apartment wasn't heat-isolated very well and didn't have heating aside from a small electric heater I bought and while the winter wasn't that cold (Kyushuu) it got pretty cold in my apartment. Finally we have something, which is also related to the culture and which is a rather big thing. The work environment. There is a big focus on working long hours in Japan, in fact just being at work is almost more important than actually doing something. So they work too much and one of the reasons is that you are expected to stay at work even if you have nothing meaningful to do. In some jobs they obviously work hard for all those hours, though that really just makes it kind of worse I guess.

The unexpected: As that cracked article pointed out Japan has a strange relationship with technology. It really is very old-fashioned in many ways, using old technology etc. On the other hand they also have some really advanced gadgets, it's just that technology which can really do a big practical difference in people's lives tend to be under-utilized and is adopted very slowly. Not necessarily bad mind you, you just have to be prepared for it. Also Japan really is still a cash society, in Denmark I pretty much only use my card, in japan that really wouldn't be possible.

Internal stuff (the people, culture etc.): So first of all it should be noted that people are people. While there may be some rather big cultural differences at times, Japanese people are not really substantially different from other people, but I guess that pretty much goes without saying. Japanese people on the whole tend to be somewhat disinterested in politics, which I think is due to how democracy was introduced in Japan. This means that Japanese people will often disagree with official policy but seem unable to think that they can really make a difference. Just something to note. Also, as that cracked article pointed out most normal Japanese people don't even know about all the weird shit that is often associated with their country.

The good: Japanese people tend to be polite, though not as excessively formal as they are often made out to be, which is fine by me. I've met a few random Japanese people who would buy me a drink and pay for my meal after talking for a while at some small restaurant. I also once got invited to an outdoor BBQ that some people were having while I was walking by. Aside from that there are also the afore-mentioned friends that I made. I like a lot of the more outward expressions of Japanese culture, such as all the festivals they hold in pretty much every town. It tends to be a lot of fun to attend these, with all sorts of folk parades etc.

The bad: It is often said that Japan has "inside" and "outside" relations, with family being the inside for example. This can also be felt on a a societal level, it can be somewhat hard for a foreigner to get on the "inside". That is not to say that I experienced any racism or anything like that, though I'm probably the least likely foreigner to experience any discrimination in Japan anyways, since I'm a white European guy. That is not to say that it is impossible to get to know Japanese people, just that it can be somewhat hard really becoming a part of Japanese society. Having some sort of venue of meeting people like a job is definitely preferable.

The unexpected: Japanese people are generally said to not show their feelings all that much, to be formal etc. This is not really true, in my experience Japanese people tend to have a fairly immediate and spontaneous reaction to their environment. If you ever see a movie with Japanese people, they tend to act surprised at the surprising places, make exclamations like "cool!" at the cool places etc. Not everyone of course, but it's fairly normal. I've also seen more Japanese people cry in public, than I've seen at home. That said, they do obviously also have a lot of formalities where people are expected to behave in certain ways etc. More-so than Denmark. Also, if you've ever taken a Japanese class, they've probably told you to use masu form all the time - don't. Japanese people tend to just use normal form and using masu can come off as distancing.

And so to finish the picture, a few annoying and/or funny things about living Japan. People being surprised that you can speak Japanese, it gets a little annoying after a certain while. People assuming that I am an American, though that one has the positive side-effect of them being surprised that I'm not and then really interested in hearing about my country of origin. People asking me why I came to japan, it is actually a pretty good conversation starter, but it gets annoying by the 20th time.

Incidentally I tended to really underplay any interest in anime, since I really didn't want to come of as that annoying guy. On the other hand that meant that I tended to sort of talk a lot about classic Japanese cinema, so not sure about that trade-off, though I guess it worked in the sense that I got along with most Japanese people I spoke with. Some just thought that I was a little to interested in the past. ;). By the way, don't go live in Japan because you think that it will enable you to experience a lot of anime-related things or whatever because you will be disappointed. The time I spent in Japan I probably watched less anime than ever before, but then again it's not like you want to spend all your time in a foreign country in front of a screen.

I always thought it was kind of funny, how when you were drinking with Japanese guys they would almost always end up asking you "So, what do you think of Japanese girls?".

On that note, I guess I should say something about gender roles and Japan. The country is definitely behind. It is generally considered the norm that women stop working when they get married and if they want a career they are kind of expected not to marry. Though I do think that it is changing right now, more and more women are working more and more. That being said, I know some Japanese families and it was not my experience that the power was unfairly distributed, both husband and wife seemed to have the same say in what they did etc.

Finally I will say this. If you are going to live in Japan you have to learn Japanese. Since the majority don't speak English, you can't actually get in contact with the local population unless you learn Japanese and if you can't get in contact with people, you are obviously going to feel like they are not welcoming of foreigners. I also think that it is important to meet Japanese people and culture halfway, that is you do some give you do some take. Obviously you shouldn't try to assimilate yourself, but if you're never willing to do things the Japanese way, are dismissive of their culture etc. don't be surprised if people are not as willing to accept your cultural differences or indeed you. I've read posts from people on the net who talk about how horrible Japan and the Japanese are and it often comes of to me as though they were all take and no give, when it came to meeting the Japanese halfway. And in that case, what did they expect really?

So, that was incredibly long. TL:DR I enjoyed living in Japan, but is is by no means a perfect country. .

edited 30th Dec '12 2:36:44 AM by Mathias

Nice post. I plan to travel to Japan one day, so it is good to hear about what people are saying, both good and bad.

Though I have to wonder, since I was adopted from Korea when I was only a few months old, would they look down upon me? After all, from what I understand, the relationship between the two isn't exactly on steady grounds.

The same can be said for Japanese's view on Chinese people and vice versa, so no worries on that front. Just be prepared for worst, that's all.

As a Chinese myself, I prefer to view this issue objectively. Like others had said, go there and come back ASAP, don't expect to last there economically.

What profit is it to a man, when he gains his money, but loses his internet? Anonymous 16:26 I believe...

Ooh! One other thing I forgot about the food (which, as mentioned, is awesome), and that is: portion size. For your average American, the portion size in a Japanese restaurant is really small. When going out to a couple of places with friends, we both typically ordered two main dishes to have what we considered a full meal, rather than a snack. The one time we went out for sushi, between three of us we went through ~50 plates. So that's another thing to keep in mind.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

food is possibly one of my favourite things about Japan.

It truly is often times healthy and tasty.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

From Mathias: "Also, if you've ever taken a Japanese class, they've probably told you to use masu form all the time - don't. Japanese people tend to just use normal form and using masu can come off as distancing."

Seconding this. Although I've never been to the country, in the time I have spent studying Japanese, I've noticed a marked increase in Japanese students' willingness to open up to me in conversations when I use the informal verb conjugation as opposed to the formal conjugation.

Also, notice that the comments section of that Cracked article contains a debate about how accurate the article itself really is. The consensus seems to be that it depends on which part of Japan you visit while you're there. To me, this is the case with most other countries in the world in that one part of the country is probably going to be very different from another part. Even down here in the South, there is a drastic difference between Fayetteville, Arkansas and Jackson, Mississippi. And within my own state, the difference between Hot Springs, Arkansas and Rosebud, Arkansas is like night and day. Likewise, the different prefectures of Japan and the cities contained within those prefectures aren't going to have the same cultural identity.

edited 30th Dec '12 1:25:54 PM by Aprilla

As a side note, it's not just Japan. America as a whole just has Really Large Portions.

edited 30th Dec '12 1:21:35 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On

Remember my Japanese friends talking about how they'll order the smallest burger at a Hawaiian restaurant, and it would be bigger than the biggest burger at an average japanese restaurant.

edited 30th Dec '12 1:27:19 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

Same for most Europeans. When I am in America, I end up ordering kids' meals at McDonald's etc because everything else is too big.

Japanese aren't small. American meals are big

Schild und Schwert der Partei

Amen to that, Baff. You can thank my trip to Japan for my increased interest in trying out foreign foods as well! But on to my two cents...

Another thing worth mentioning about Japan is that it's no longer the Bastion of videogaming it once was. Ironically, that reputation probably belongs to us Yanks now. Also, shopping for anything electronic is foolish, because it's actually more expensive in the big retailers, even a lot of the smaller ones, than buying online or in the States. There's not much of an interesting game selection, either: your local Gamestop (or whatever local videogame retailer you have) likely has a bigger selection of Japanese videogames than most of the Major Japanese electronics shops do.

That's not to say that they're leaving the industry altogether: rather, they're just taking it in a cheaper, different direction than we're used to. Think along the lines of MMO games in arcades, handheld/mobile phone games, cheap, obscure PC games... basically, products that wouldn't sell anywhere else.

edited 30th Dec '12 2:41:23 PM by SgtRicko