Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

No offence, but The Clone Wars did a much better job with world building than the prequel movies ever did.

What. You've got to be joking. What "traditions" are you talking about? Achieving power through any means necessary?? Destroying the Jedi Order? Taking over the galaxy?

Palpatine sets the standard for what the Sith should be.

Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist, and everything he does is what other Sith have been trying for millenia, but never got close to achieving.

edited 29th Nov '15 12:41:37 AM by higherbrainpattern

Part of me thinks the Sith have overstayed their welcome, but another really likes the idea of some oldschool dark-side warlock running around wrecking shit. He/she doesn't really even need a motive like taking over the galaxy or revenge or anything; I'd like to see a villain solely interested in causing mayhem and having a good time (at the expense of everyone else). It's a change of pace from Palpatine's machinations and Vader's tortured existence, and I think it could lead to some pretty crazy shenanigans that you wouldn't get otherwise.

While I speak mostly from a de-canonized EU perspective here, Palpatine was just about the worst Sith ever, at least in terms of how Darth Bane envisioned his line of Sith. Bane's concept of the Sith was just that - a concept. That through the Rule of Two the idea of the Sith would never die even if the master or apprentice did. So that the Dark Side and all its self-serving, world-wrecking, corruption would persist through history.

Palpatine didn't give a crap about that though. To him, his attunement to the Dark Side of the Force was just an added bonus. Even without learning about the Force, I think he could've become Emperor purely through political manipulation - and if you think about it, he pretty much did do it all without the Force. Palpatine's goals were never about progressing the Dark Side or passing on his wisdom of it onto an apprentice. If that was on his list of priorities, he wouldn't have killed Plagueis before he imparted the whole "cheat death" thing. Palpatine's goals were all about climbing that ladder to take over the galaxy - not for the Sith, but for himself. Instead of harvesting Sith relics and looking for further power in the Force with his new Empire, Palpatine was content to build two Death Stars. Contrast that mentality of technological super-weapons with Vader's own mentality of "The Force is the most powerful weapon there is" and you immediately know that Palpatine has very little respect or interest in fully realizing the power of the Force in the way Bane intended his successors to.

To quote another Bane entirely, Palpatine merely adopted the Dark Side of the Force, whereas true Sith are born in it.

Edit: That isn't to say you aren't right in that he was incredibly powerful and successful where other Sith weren't - you're absolutely right in that regard. I'm just arguing that he was successful for all the wrong reasons and that he was more interested in preserving his legacy rather than that of the Sith as a whole.

edited 29th Nov '15 1:01:54 AM by HisInfernalMajesty

Honestly, now more than ever I don't think Bane's view of the Sith matters anymore. And that's probably a good thing. It leaves writers to make up whatever the heck they want for Sith now.

I wanna see Darth Ruin become the first Sith Lord ever again just to see how everyone would take it.

I'd like to explore other force users besides the Jedi and the Sith. But I like Darth Ruin. His philosophy made him interesting.

To be honest, I think some archeologist is probably going to stumble into a Sith tomb find a Sith holocron or something. You'd think the Jedi would've cleaned up Korriban/Moraband/Whatever so no moron can suddenly get possessed.

edited 29th Nov '15 1:15:33 AM by TerminusEst

Yeah, I certainly disagree with Bane's general philosophy and the Rule of Two. It's ultimately just as self-destructive as the old Sith order it replaced. You get apprentices who kill off their masters before they learn everything or you get masters who refuse to pass down anything. So eventually you'd end up with a generation of idiot Sith who know the bare minimum. But the core idea of preserving the Sith order itself is what I admire.

I like the Sith as villains, but I like them when they're organized and have a kind of loyalty and honor and structure to them. Maybe it's because I played a Noble Demon Sith Inquisitor in TOR, but I think it's possible for the Sith to be cool anti-villains that are just the more emotive and passionate shadows of the Jedi, rather than a bunch of selfish back-stabbers after unlimited powah. I see them as misguided philosophers who've just been dealt a bad hand in life forcing them to strike back at the world in ways the Jedi would never allow.

To me, Palpatine putting himself above the sith is what makes him a good sith.

I'd agree, if not for the fact that despite all his power, he never was really "free" as per their code. He was an addict in a ruined body.

That's something I don't think any Sith achieved really. Control over the dark side, rather than being controlled by it.

I'd say that's the inherent flaw of their philosophy. They seek to be free from the boundaries of morality and often natural laws of the universe, but end up becoming slaves to their own emotions and vices, as well as the dark side itself.

Indeed. A lot of their actions can simply be reasoned with "Because I can." Palpatine didn't have to form an oppressive Empire that gave him control over the entire galaxy, he just did it because he wanted power. Sith in The Old Republic that actually fight for the Empire itself and those they care about are atypical because they're not solely interested in themselves. Any Sith will eventually just devolve into a psychopath that wants nothing but power, just as Palpatine did.

It's funny, really. Less than a month away. Before New Year, before Christmas.

Yep.

Yet it's still

TOO FAR

AWAY

Eh, one day ten years will pass and we'll all be creaking wondering how it was this long ago and how we're so old.

I'm still incredulous I was a fucking freshman when I found out Disney had purchased Star Wars. Like, logically I know feature films take three years to make, but still. Knowing I've waited that long for this feels WEIRD.

Anybody who thinks that the First Order is going away after one movie needs to keep in mind a few things. One, its called Star Wars; you can't have a war without opposing military forces. Two, they have made quite clear that Snoke is well aware of what came before and he knows the Jedi Order didn't die under combined might of a Legion of Darkness but under the guns of the Clone Army. Star Wars has always driven home the lesson that one man, no matter how powerful, is nothing against an army. You seriously expect that to change? Three, Disney has invested a hell of a lot of marketing in the First Order. More so than Snoke or Kylo Ren. I would say the First Order is here to stay.

I was a...sophomore? I think? in college when Disney bought Star Wars.

I'll agree that the First Order isn't going away. But I think the fact an otherwise universally human organization has an alien leader has implications for the sequel trilogy that haven't yet become clear.

A big question is, do the rank and file First Order members even know who, and what, Snoke is?

And if they don't, could this be leading to an Enemy Mine situation down the road with the First Order and the Resistance (or even the entire New Republic) team up to stop whatever Supreme Leader Snoke's ultimate plans are?

....So how mad do you guys think that Fox is now that Disney owns Star Wars? Like, I keep hearing about incidents where people that work for Fox News and the like keep insulting Star Wars. Like that one Fox News correspondent who said that she's too busy "liking cool things and being attractive" to like Star Wars and got a lot of death threats from overzealous fans as a result.

They're going to be even madder if they lose Fantastic Four to them, too.

Fuck Fox, those worthless bastards who wouldn't know a good show if it came up and bashed their skulls in with 100 Emmy awards it legitimately won.

Why do people think sending death threats is an acceptable response to someone criticizing a fictional thing?

I don't think it's acceptable at all. I was horrified, in fact. I just think the way the Fox News correspondent "criticized" Star Wars (in particular, she was making fun of fans who were excited for The Force Awakens) was particularly mean-spirited and is indicative of a larger trend at Fox, because they're pissed they let the franchise get away from them and it ended up in Disney's hands.

edited 29th Nov '15 7:33:49 PM by higherbrainpattern

All the same her being a bitch about people liking Star Wars was entirely uncalled for.

"Oh look at me, I'm so attractive! I'm so pretty I don't care about anything that's not "cool" :D"

Pfft.