That Indefinable Thing -"It"- another name for charisma?

Elinor Glyn was an Edwardian British novelist whose most famous achievement was popularising the idea of "It", which, she wrote, "is that quality possessed by some which draws all others with its magnetic force. With It you win all men if you are a woman and all women if you are a man."

The phrase "the It girl" comes from descriptions of Clara Bow, who played the heroine in the 1927 movie version of It. Elinor Glyn said that It was hard to define or describe, but to me It sounds like another name for charisma. What does everyone else think It is?

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

A spider-clown thing from beyond the universe, obviously.

edited 4th Sep '12 1:52:19 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Cash?

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'

Carciofus and Inverurie: Ha ha ha. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Glyn

edited 4th Sep '12 1:56:48 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

OK, a serious answer then: no such thing exists. Sure, there are traits (generally culturally mediated, at least to some degree) that are widely considered appealing and others that are widely considered unappealing; but there exist no traits that will prove irresistibly attractive to all people of one's preferred gender.

There exists no universally appealing person, not even in principle. Different people like different things.

edited 4th Sep '12 2:02:01 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Honestly, I have no idea. People in the real world keep telling me I have 'something' along those lines. Couldn't say, myself.

Confidence? A loud voice? War stories? A filthy sense of humour? Can't say for sure.

edited 4th Sep '12 2:00:03 AM by InverurieJones

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'

@Carciofus: Maybe not actually "universally appealing but there are a number of people who seem to be appealing to a wide section of people".

The icons like Marilyn Monroe, for instance. She's someone who IMO had It.

@Inverurie Jones: Maybe "It" is a combination of confidence and sociability.

As for me, people seem to like me, but I'm socially awkward, so it's perfectly obvious that I haven't got It.

edited 4th Sep '12 2:12:30 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

SHE'S GOT IT! Yeah baby, she's got it!

This song was the first thing I thought of when I read this thread title. It can stand next to "Little Green Bag" and "Radar Love" as one of the very few songs by Dutch bands to become a major international hit.

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...

@Midnight Rambler: What's your definition of It?

edited 4th Sep '12 2:21:57 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

If we go by "appealing to a wide section of people", why are you searching for a single factor? There are probably a number of different traits that are appealing to equally wide, intersecting but not identical segments of the population.

I don't find Marylin Monroe particularly attractive, to be honest: I'm just not into her physical type, and I actually find her persona (yes, I know that it was just a persona, but still) and her mannerisms quite grating.

It happens: if anything, as far as I can tell (but that's not some sort of tally I keep, only some trends I noticed) I tend to be attracted to "outdoorsy" girls who project an image of solid, calm confidence, and that's just about as far from Monroe as possible.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Mmmm. Girl-in-a-lumberjack-shirt. Hurr.

I admit, I find my wife's cheerful willingness to chop up livestock most endearing.

edited 4th Sep '12 2:40:06 AM by InverurieJones

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'

She's a lumberjack and she's OK / She sleeps all night and she works all day ?

edited 4th Sep '12 2:49:57 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

If she gets a chance to sleep, yes.

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'

@Carciofus:

You may not think MM is attractive, but certainly a lot of men do and did. What I define as "It" is the fact that she was charismatic. That's It.

Madonna has It too. It is the ability to walk in and have everyone stare at you and like you.

edited 4th Sep '12 3:15:51 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

If "It" is dependant on personal preference, I would say that speaks against "It" being something special that someone can be said to have. If that's the case, everyone has "It", just in different variants and amounts.

Join us in our quest to play all RPG video games! Moving on to disc 2 of Grandia!

I think the word that Carciofus is objecting to is 'everyone'. He does not like Marilyn Monroe (or her persona, anyway) so it's wrong to say that everyone stares at and likes her. A lot of people isn't all of the people.

Dammit, Carc, I'm going to be humming that all night now.

edited 4th Sep '12 3:12:43 AM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...

Again, for a very bizarre definition of "everyone".

No doubt many people find Madonna and Monroe appealing; but why are you assuming that there exists a single "it" that accounts for any case of someone being attractive to many?

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Surely a true It would work regardless of gender. I don't think that there is something people are universally attracted to, or if there was that it's charisma. I'm also in agreement with Lemurian and Carciofus.

edited 4th Sep '12 3:14:48 AM by Telcontar

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.

Yeah, that's the thing.

Sorry

To be honest, I don't even enjoy Monty Python that much; but it's just so quotable...

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Does anyone here think charisma doesn't exist? OK, so maybe not everyone, but loads of people. Hasn't anyone ever noticed that there tend to be people who are really charming and nice to everyone around them? And everyone around them seems to like them? Charisma is It. It doesn't have to be sex appeal.

edited 4th Sep '12 3:29:52 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

^I was gonna say "Duh, of course charisma exists" but when you put it like that... Nope

Difficult. But I'd say you need a gimmick - a certain unusual look, taste, talent, belief or personality trait - and the ability to display it in such a way that a) people will see it as a natural aspect of your identity rather than a deliberate pose you're desperately trying to adopt, and b) people will find it intriguing rather than annoying.

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...

Spooky: Have you ever met someone who's very charming and nice? Midnight Rambler: So It is about quirky charm, in your opinion?

edited 4th Sep '12 3:28:27 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Yes, there probably is such a thing as charisma. But even that is situational, to a degree: one person's "charming" may well be another person's "smarmy". And it's probably also rather culturally dependent, too.

Yes. I have also met people who were charming but not nice, and people who were nice but not charming

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Hitler had charisma. He was not nice.

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'