Rename (28/9/12): Shallow Love Interest

The trouble is that a) the term is used outside the wiki (need not be a problem; we have pages for things like Black Hole Sue or Eight Deadly Words that reviewers might use but are marked as outside of the scope of a wiki) b) it's not just the name but the very concept that attracts complaining. Any suggestions for a name that is indicative but not pejorative?

Several. See post 26 for a summary of what's been suggested so far.

eta: we should also get rid of the page quote, which suggests this is a bad writing trope, when it can simply be that spending too much time on a particular character would take away focus from the story.

edited 20th Aug '12 1:13:06 PM by Xtifr

I'd like to see this trope become a YMMV one, especially since it seems hard to pin down how "vague and shallow" a given love interest's personality is.

The description needs work too, but I don't think there's anything particularly YMMV about Merely A Love Interest.

But I do think we're about at the point where we can call this and get on with selecting the new name.

YMMV is actually the current problem - people interpret the trope as "this love interest seems shallow, IMO," which is not its purpose.

If we change the name to Merely A Love Interest and remove the implications that this is necessarily a bad thing (rather than the Sturgeon's Law standard), that should also resolve the question about whether to include characters like Homura.

I think ultimately this is an objective criticism trope, it isn't ymmv but on the whole it isn't something you would encourage in a writing class (much like Idiot Ball or "Friends" Rent Control). One example I can think of is Sierra from Transformers Prime, she is the most incidental of background characters and is simply there to represent Jacks social life outside of the Autobots. It isn't given an abnormal amount of focus (appreciated by the fans) but because of that all we know about her is that she and Jack like each other.

Merely A Love Interest seems like a much better name, since it removes the ambiguity of "shallow".

Calling crowner in favour of renaming.

Okay, so the suggested names we have are:

• Flat Love Interest
• Merely A Love Interest
• Object Of Attraction
• Obligatory Love Interest
• Satellite Love Interest
• Satellite Lover
• Token Romance Character
• Undeveloped Love Interest
• Undeveloped Object Of Attraction

I still think Satellite Love Interest is the best.

I don't get it.

Object Of Attraction seems far too vague and broad, with or without "Undeveloped". Token Romance Character suffers from a similar problem as the current name: too ambiguous. Is it a token romance? Is the character the only person with a different skin color?

Aside from those, I suppose any of these could work, though I'm a little confused by the satellite ones, If other people think that makes some sort of sense, I can live with it. I suppose I sort of see what it's trying to say, but it seems off to me.

edited 28th Sep '12 12:18:57 PM by Xtifr

Seems simple enough to me - Love Interest as Satellite Character.

Exactly. Snowclone, but a snowclone of a related trope. Should hopefully allow people to grasp the idea more easily.

Hm, maybe. I think I may have heard the term Satellite Character, but the snowclone didn't trigger an association for me. (An all-too-common problem with snowclones.) Maybe it'll work better for others. I suppose I can at least be neutral about that one.

eta: anyway, what we really need here is a crowner. I'm in the middle of something else, but I can make one later if nobody else has bothered.

edited 28th Sep '12 1:11:13 PM by Xtifr

New crowner.

Personally, I felt most of the stuff I added was bad for one reason or another. Only three things didn't get down votes.

edited 28th Sep '12 1:27:20 PM by Arha

Crowner hooked.

I still think Merely A Love Interest is the best. It seems like the most clear, and it's simple and to-the-point, and it works well in a sentence.

It sounds kind of insulting to me. Negative. Plus it doesn't seem to connect to the fact that it's a character defined by their love.

edited 28th Sep '12 2:01:48 PM by Arha

I like Flat Love Interest or Satellite Love Interest. The Love Interest bit is important and is probably very hard to be misunderstood. What word you tack to it is a little less important, but these two are the clearest to me.

I think some of the suggestions were more temporary descriptions of the trope rather than serious name suggestions, but I listed them anyway, just in case.

Whyever is Flat Love Interest the second choice? That has exactly all the same problems as the current title.

No it doesn't. The primary problem we're seeing is that people mistake this for being about a shallow person. A flat character is not at all the same thing, and, in fact, a flat character is exactly what this trope is about.

I'm more surprised that Merely A Love Interest is in the green personally. That one seems even worse than the name we have now. Mind you, it's trailing really far behind so it's not really a problem.

I still think Merely A Love Interest is an excellent description that fits perfectly. How do you think it doesn't fit? I do take your point that it can be seen as a bit negative, but I think all these can be. Flat/shallow characterization is not usually considered to be a plus in writing (even though it can be under the right circumstances).

I'm actually concerned that Satellite Love Interest may be too broad. A Satellite Character is a secondary character who may actually be fairly well developed—just not as developed as the primary characters, and primarily defined in relation to another character.

eta: Then again, broadening this just a little might not be a bad thing.

edited 29th Sep '12 5:47:47 PM by Xtifr

It's negative and says nothing about characterization. It's the kind of dismissive line someone might give on seeing the latest Bond girl or something. Yeah, she might end up being a Shallow Love Interest but it sounds like the remark someone gives upon seeing her and then paying her no further attention. She's merely a love interest, but what about that makes her easy to dismiss?

Which in turn leads to a related third point: It makes it sounds like an Audience Reaction trope. It's not.

edited 29th Sep '12 6:09:54 PM by Arha