MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:
The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.
Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.
No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:
- The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
- Circumcision
- Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
- The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
- Sexual abuse of men.
- Family law.
- General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.
I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.
Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.
Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.
Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM
The Mistress
Jetyl, go find help, it is much better then just doing nothing.
I speak from experience.
"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
Nameless Hero
Love the satire cartoon Gabrael. So true XD.
The name's Axel. Wanna check out Aim 4 The Head, my Zombie Apocalypse spoof comic?: http://www.smackjeeves.com/comicprofile.php?id=138048
The Dev Cat
I actually am seeing a therapist (started seeing her around the 2nd/3rd breakdown), but I've been dealing with these issues for years, and the first therapist I had about two years ago wasn't any help.
I guess another thing that always made me feel like I shouldn't bother bringing it up is that my breakdowns have never been Panic Attack level bad note , its just been periods of a complete loss of composer (crying a lot basically), inability to do anything save maybe walking, and intense feeling of self-loathing, so you know, better!
edited 9th Oct '14 11:37:51 AM by Jetyl
I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?
HGW XX/7
No. There's no such thing as a good panic attack, and you can't walk them off. And panic attacks can have physical symptoms too.
Keep seeing the therapist, and don't be afraid to tell her everything. Go into it with an open mind and help her help you.
There are far more people like us than you might think. 40% of people will take medication for a mental health issue at some point in their lives.
edited 9th Oct '14 3:21:35 PM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei
The Dev Cat
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
you did notice I put that last part under sarcasm mode right?
and don't worry, I AM going to keep seeing this therapist, as I'm sick and tired of feeling awful near constantly. I can't stand feeling like I'm trapped because I'm too sane to do anything tragically stupid, but too messed up to be happy. Basically, I know what I have to do, its just actually doing it that's the hard part...
I do have to wonder if I just need to be on medication though, since when it comes to most other facets of my life I apparently do really well in. My college, for example, is constantly held up as a very high work load, high stress school where you need to have good time management in order to succeed, and yet so far I've had to change nothing in how I handle work and I'm one of the few freshman that I know of whose gotten all their work done, had reasonable amounts of free time, and not all that stressed by the school work.
Its kind of weirding me out to be honest, and since my mind likes to torture me, my mind makes me wonders if I'm doing it wrong or something, despite that making literally negative sense.
edited 9th Oct '14 5:37:16 PM by Jetyl
I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?
No, the other one.
If you think you've had good time management skills prior to that, it's probably just what it seems like.
It could also be that you're not constantly drunk and/or partying like a lot of other college students.note 
The Dev Cat
I didn't think I had good time management skills though. I always felt like I was a crazy procrastinator.
Its also weird cause I know both of my roommates at least aren't crazy part-goers/drunk/any other stereotypical college student cliché and they've both been swamped with work despite us sharing more than half of our classes. its strange.
I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?
No, the other one.
I had the same experience, and I was rather lazy when it came to school work. By college I had more spare time than before (until I started playing a MUD...), despite classes being significantly harder. College is less formally structured than previous education. More of your own responsibility. Less fixed homework, and more self-study. Some people just take to it very well. Others don't.
Anyway, this is probably getting off topic, so I'll stop here.
Check out my fanfiction!
Street Writing Man
Tossing a new topic into the thread...
interesting article,
or rather, an interesting set of articles. My take; the author does a good job of breaking down the various schools and influences on honor and masculinity, and along the way he unwittingly points out how the modern American male's sense of himself is at war. There are too many conflicting ideals, and as such there is an overriding temptation to do nothing.
However, in all schools of the honor code passivity is not allowed. You must do something. Thus does the modern American male often erode his own sense of self, for want of knowing the "best" way to preserve it.
Thoughts? (Note: please read the article series before answering. Otherwise my statements will likely make very little sense.)
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
The main points that I disagree with the article is the intertwining of "honor", "respect", and "reputation". I also get the sense that the writer's definition of "honor" is being placed at a higher priority than social equity and rights.
I don't find honor to be all that important to "manliness", to be honest. Nor do I find it as something that can be defined by social conformity. Systems of honor ("Chivalry", "Machismo", "Bushido", etc.) tend to fail because that system inevitably begins to trample on equity. For example, some arbitrary standard is drawn and anyone who fails to meet that standard is excluded, with the attitude being that if they were really cut out for honor, they'd force themselves into that standard. I have yet to come across one system where this was tried where it didn't eventually crash and burn into some kind of bigotry.
The Mod with the Migraine
Sexy clothes do not cause rape, unless you fully agree with this little imaginary tidbit:
Father: "It's okay, son. It's evolution. Men have been tempted since caveman days. She should have covered up. How short was her skirt?"
Drunkie: I'll read those later, if I have enough time tonight.
edited 10th Oct '14 12:47:08 AM by BlueNinja0
That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
A nice butterfly
Yesterday I had a nice time with my grandfather (from my father's side) as we went out for some stuff. While I love him to bits and he is a fucking commendable man, his insistent jokes on me having to get laid are annoying after a while.
There is a thin line when such insistence is a joke and another some subconcious fear. He is a very traditional man in those ways.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Nameless Hero
So we all know that calling a lady a *unt, *itch, etc is sexist, but I've heard from some people that calling someone a dick or *rick is sexist to dudes. I can see how it's rude, sure, but it's not really sexist, in my view. I do think it's sexist to call a guy a pecker or telling him to "grow a pair" cos it implies a man is defined by his genitals and that he's less of a man for *gasp!* being afraid of the slasher/tiger/gun fire/Galactus, etc. Personally I prefer saying "grow a spine" (when I'm playfully mocking someone, that is). What do you guys think?
The name's Axel. Wanna check out Aim 4 The Head, my Zombie Apocalypse spoof comic?: http://www.smackjeeves.com/comicprofile.php?id=138048
I could more easily buy that "being a *ick" can be sexist, because it's connecting a masculine anatomy to being a jerk, if *unt didn't mean the same thing.
A nice butterfly
Well the connotations of those words, that is, genitalia, imply the dull connection that "my reproductive system > your reproductive system", between genders. So, insults refering to people as several euphemisms of vaginas carry with them the de facto insult thta being a woman is inferior and I am calling you a woman.
Whereas the male insults of "pecker" and "grow a pair" are similar, but instead of telling the other "you are a woman" it tell them"You are not man enough".
The Richard insult I do not find particularly insulting in such context, as in, it does not carry the "you are not manly enough", or "You are a woman" insults. It is more like "you are dirty and intrusive" which is...well. A description of the penis. I have also seen men taking being a Richard as a Badge of Honor, so...
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
HGW XX/7
In Scotland the word cunt has outgrown it's sad roots and is now a placeholder word for just about everything, and a unisex insult. A bit like kurwa in Poland.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
A nice butterfly
No True Scotsman would use such a dirty word.
Everyone knows the worst insult for a Scotsman is "Englishman".
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Grow a pair is sexist, but it's sexist against women, not men. It implies that being a woman is lesser.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
A procrastination in of itself
All sexual anatomy based insults are sexist one way or another. If the insult is about a particular bit of an anatomy (calling someone a dick or pussy) than it's sexist against people with that anatomy, if it's about not having that anatomy (telling someone to grow a pair) than it's sexist against those who lack such anatomy.
Now many anatomy based insults have gone beyond that and are used against both genders, but the roots of the insult are still there. I know I've tried to cut down on my anatomy based insults over the last year, it's not that easy though, you end up using butt related insults a hell of a lot (buttface, butthead, shithead, crapsack, piece of crap, ect).
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
The Mistress
Reminds me how I once called Ai Ebihara a dick.
"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
The Mod with the Migraine
Nameless Hero
Apologies in advance for being long-winded. No apologies for discussing gay and trans dudes.
I suppose calling a guy a dick is pretty misandrist. So's mocking virgin dudes, come to think of it. YMMV on this, but "grow a pair" is also transphobic to transdudes since, last I checked, a penoplasty can make a penis but not testes. Transdudes are still dudes after all, said the Captain Obvious. I also don't like mistakes being called "cock-ups", but that's just me.
Also, I'm a bit late to the party but gay marriage is now called marriage in the UK (instead of that "civil partnership" nonsense which sounds more like a business deal than a romantic unity). So how does it work? Are the G's and L's allowed to do anything a straight couple can do, or is it marriage BUT they CAN'T do x, y and z? I seriously hope they have all the same rights as straight couples.
Hermi-I mean, Emma Watson, claimed in her "open invitation to men" video that suicide is the biggest killer of men in the UK, more than heart disease or some other issue she mentioned that I can't remember the name of. Is that true? Scary thought.
A bit off-topic: does plastic surgery actually involve plastics of any kind?
The name's Axel. Wanna check out Aim 4 The Head, my Zombie Apocalypse spoof comic?: http://www.smackjeeves.com/comicprofile.php?id=138048
A nice butterfly
The insult is, frankly, stupid. I don't even like pears
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
exactly. Panic attacks are not something that you just "get over". You will have both a health clinic and a counselor at your college. You can see them between classes.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur