High Class, Low Class and writing these different worlds convincingly.

Most of us (saddly) are not rich.

Most are not that elite 1% of society that can claim to be RICH.

Given that most writers are (comperatively) poor, are there any tips on how to write about the world of wealth and oppulance?

Every realm of opulence and wealth is different, and highly dependent on what happens to be in style, what the poor and bourgeois cannot readily afford, and what they consider to be most important. Modern Western upperclass realms no longer consider purple dye, anything and everything from India, or personal menageries to be necessary proponents of proving one's wealth. What time period and location are you going for?

edited 24th May '12 4:25:51 AM by CrystalGlacia

Yeah, this. In some ways, I feel not much has changed externally between the medieval aristocracy and the modern super-rich, but culturally they're quite different.

Also, the upper class even in a single era can't necessarily be lumped together. There's probably always going to be a difference between 'new' and 'old' money, for instance.

Time Period: Present Day.

Location: USA mostly. I assume wealth (as in money) is easy to convert/recognize around the world anyway so anywhere in the Developed World.

edited 25th May '12 3:47:11 AM by Natasel

Last I checked, even among rich people, there is no uniformity right now.

Take Mark Zuckerberg, for example. He actually still rents a normal-sized house within walking distance of Facebook headquarters and dresses like a normal person.

There was another rich person whose name escapes me who didn't feel any difference at all from having money. Having money simply caused the removal of having to worry about having enough to pay the bills in the month-to-month.

And both of these examples are American, too.

edited 25th May '12 4:34:39 AM by burnpsy

Yeah, but those guys are the odd ones out right?

If ALL the rich people in the world actually acted like that, I'm pretty sure businesses like Private Jets, Mansions, Limos, $10,000 an hour escort service and the blow that comes with that, would die off.

Right?

Theoretically.

Though, of course, as a non-rich person, I wouldn't be able to tell for sure.

For all we know, it may be the other way around. 1% of over 7 billion is a lot more people than we'd be able to recognize as rich - I don't think there's enough room on the planet for mansions for all of them, or even most of them.

edited 25th May '12 4:42:51 AM by burnpsy

1% of the world is, according to Wolfram, about the size of... France. So, yeah, an entire country full of mansions isn't that practical.

Point, but there ARE Mansions right?

Rich People aren't a myth.

Its just that spotting one is like trying to find a rare, endangered species.

Hard to find unless you know where to look.

Best I can think of is that the rich occasionally travel via specific routes called First Class, and rest on their journey's in places called 5-Star Penthouse Hotels.

I don't think most writers are comparatively poor. The vast majority of writers are the well-educated - normally a university degree but at the very least a complete secondary education - which correlates strongly with being well-off. To be a writer you also have to have a good amount of free time, which is also something you're more likely to have if you're well-off. Not to mention that everyone on this site is obviously on the internet, which means they have a computer, an internet connection, and access to electricity, which in many places would make you vastly wealthy.

Until they have to pay off the loans they took out to pay for that degree.

Bahahahahahaha no.

Writers find time to write by not sleeping.

But see, in developed countries, that only counts as middle-class.

edited 26th May '12 1:00:02 PM by Leradny

Entirely dependent on how (ir)responsible one's parents are. I, for instance, will not have to take out any loans whatsoever.

Here's a link which gives some quick graphs on the correlation between wealth and education level. As a well-off middle-class kid who will in all probability end up with cripplingly large student loans to pay for not only an initial degree but, since I want to be a lawyer, at the very least a year of postgrad, I can tell you that compared to a) a working-class British person, b) your average person in a less wealthy developed nation like Greece, or c) your average person in a developing nation, I'm rich. The financial problems of student debt don't even compare to the financial problems most people have to cope with.

Writers do not find time to write by not sleeping. At least when it comes to the writers I know - and I wouldn't be ridiculous enough to make a sweeping generalisation about all writers, but I have family members who are writers, both novelists and freelancers, and I know what they do - they write in what would otherwise be their leisure time.

Being middle-class in a country like America or Britain is wealthy, not only by the standards of poor people in the developing world but compared to the average income across the world.

edited 26th May '12 5:28:20 PM by cityofmist

Ok, seem to have forgotten to discuss the other side of the coin.

Low Class. ie Being Poor.

HOPEFULLY, most troppers are not sterotypically Poor.

No eating from the trash, no sleeping in a cardbord box or wearing rags.

So, anything about writing characters or situations where dumpster diving is the fancy way to eat out?

Right then.

I'd just like to say that "not having financial struggles" does not equal "wealthy", though. I thought that was the whole point of having a middle class, in that the people in it are neither poor nor rich

My idea of the upper class is likely dated, and inaccurate since I've only seen them in old movies. I really have no idea where you'd find sources on that sort of thing.

However, every individual is different.

That applies to the "lower" class too. I'd like to think that dumpster diving, homelessness, and dressing in rags to be the extreme.

My image of the lower class (in America) is along the lines of the working poor. Those who work minimum wage and can barely afford a crackerjack apartment on the bad side of town. Their car (if they have one) is a second-hand piece of junk that barely works, or they simply take public transit.

Of course, that is my imagination based on personal experience. Everyone will have their own images of what upper and lower class will be.

True.

I'm sorry, but... what.

The upper and lower classes of society are not some fictional idea that can be interpreted differently by different people. There are accurate statements to be made about their lifestyles; obviously, some of these will be generalizations, but to conclude from that that 'everyone will have their own images', and this is acceptable in lieu of doing actual research, is simply bizarre.

She might have a point.

Its a bit of a sad sterotype that RICH people (the arrogant snobby types anyway) think that POOR people are stupid, lazy good for nothings.

Then there's the: POOR people think RICH people are all immoral, greedy crooks who lied and cheated their way to wealth.

Obviously its not (always) true so as a writer, how do you handle the issue of extreme wealth/poverty?

The only author I know who did this consistently was Dickens, and that Era in England is pretty much over.

edited 27th May '12 5:52:58 PM by Natasel

Less than you might think. There are still certain inner-city areas in the UK where your average life expectancy is around the mid-fifties.

Well that stinks.

Is it because they are poor?

And I thought England was a developed nation. What's going on in the inner cities there?

Of course it's because they're poor. You can't really afford to have a healthy lifestyle when you're living paycheck to paycheck and corrupt politicians spend every waking moment attempting to dismantle the only social systems keeping you alive so their corporate masters can turn a profit.

That's how reality works. There are no rich nations. Only nations that happen to have a high concentration of rich people, who happen to run everything for their own aims. In the meantime, they've usually convinced the poor that this set-up is to their own benefit, in order to placate them and keep them in an arrangement that is otherwise not to their benefit in the slightest.

Hence why there are different ways to write upper class versus lower class lifestyles. Will you idealize the rich as good, honest people who earned their wealth, while the poor lack either initiative or luck, or will you opt for a more realistic world of sharp inequality and lack of opportunity on the bottom and nepotism and privilege at the top?

There is also the matter of perception.

Class divisions are certainly alive and well in the UK today, but they're a bit different from what they might have been a hundred years ago. I'd imagine other countries have similar issues with class, but because the history is different, the cultures present in those classes and how they interact is going to be different.

I think probably the main thing about the UK class divisions of today is that they're less structured. In the past, there was more of an elaborate system of working-class solidarity and upper-class social convention which ensured the cultures remained separated and everyone was confined pretty much to their allotted sphere of behaviour. Then with the industrial revolution the Nouveau Riche took off and ruined everything, and since then, while there are still vestiges of the old cultures and generalizations can be made about people in certain income brackets or with other defining class traits, generally there's just a spectrum between poor people who complain about the rich stealing their money with tax, rich people who complain about the poor stealing their money with tax, and the middle class who complain about everyone, including themselves, and fill the void of existential dread by buying ever-more-elaborate kitchenware.

And yes, I think how you choose to divide up and represent the many distinctions present in society is up to you, but as always research is your friend.

@ nrjxll: I'm not saying it's some fictional concept. I'm saying that even if people do research, they will still interpret the information differently. And personal experiences will also shape how they perceive these facts.

And the idea of social class in general is subjective. For example: There are some (not all) people who have money, but do they really have "class?"

"Classy" is a word that describe someone who is sharp and sophisticated, but not necessarily rich.

Actually, you probably said what I was trying to say a whole lot better. ._.;

I found this blog earlier today which I think may be of use for this conversation. It's not writing related, but it's highly related to the concept of being poor, like so poor they can't afford housing anymore: http://guide2homelessness.blogspot.com/

It's basically tips, stories and view points from a very intelligent, and well-read homeless/formerly-homeless man.

Thanks! This is helpfull.

Now if only the Rich would blog about what its like....