Lion King and Kimba controversy

Hopefully, we can be objective about this...

Do I think Disney took some inspiration from Kimba? Of course, there are some indications that the animators knew the show, Roy E. Disney seemed to have talked about it, Matt Broderick thought he was doing a Kimba remake etc.

It seems even Tezuka had wanted Disney to adapt Kimba.

All the same, I still think The Lion King is a pretty good story for their first "original" film.

There is no such thing as an original Disney film, they're all happier takes on old tales. Much more optimistic, with musical numbers and endings that are changed to not scar children at a young age.

Well define original for me.

Pretty certain The Lion King is loosely based of Hamlet as well.

Yup, it's Hamlet meets Kimba meets The Holocaust.

We don't have a page for The Holocaust? How odd...

edited 26th Apr '12 8:29:49 PM by CTM

Probably for the best.

There was definitely a lot of scenes lifted from Kimba, but from what I understand the stories are pretty different overall.

Given that I've never read Bambi, I couldn't speak to the tone of the original, but the Disney version does have its traumatic moments...

Every time someone asks this, the main thing I remember is "in early concept art, Simba was white."

I wasn't really aware there was much of a controversy though. More like a few geeks pointing out similarities. I agree that when you get to the nitty-gritty, the two aren't really that similar (namely in that Simba is a bit of a wimp, while Kimba is overbearingly powerful. How powerful? He fights an adult lion and wins!)

The way I hear it, Disney wanted to remake Kimba and started working on it, didn't get the rights, and decided to make a lion movie with an original plot. But they still had concept art from when it was going to be Kimba, and some of the other aspects wound up looking similar because, well, it was a movie about lions in Africa. If your hero is a lion, the obvious bad guys are a) hyenas and b) evil lions. You'll want to cast other African animals as sidekicks and show off a lot of sweeping panoramas of savannahs and jungles. The "vision of father in the clouds" scene is the real sticking point, but even that is a common mythic storytelling device. And didn't those two scenes have entirely different functions in their respective stories?

The Lion King is not really that much like Hamlet. The strongest similarity is Timon and Pumbaa to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, and they're not that close. Everything else - evil uncle usurping rightful king, banishment of prince, return - is way, waaaay older than Hamlet.

The funny thing is, in Kimba The White Lion, Kimba saw a "vision of his mother in the clouds", which is a little different from Simba seeing a "vision of his father in the clouds".

Another big difference between Kimba and The Lion King is the presence of humans. Kimba has poachers to deal with, and is trying to improve relations between nature and humans. Simba never had to face any humans, but I wonder if that shadowy place he pointed out has humans there?

The Simpsons even made a Parody of this controversy by having Mufasa in the clouds saying, "You must avenge my death, Kimba, I mean, Simba!"

What exactly was the reaction from Osamu Tezuka Productions to TLK?

I actually wasn't aware that Internet Backdraft went both ways (Lion King fans don't like hearing about Kimba the white Lion). I thought the general consensus was that while Disney ought to give credit, it's still a good film. I guess in the end, some camps will talk about how Disney rips off/butchers works regardless of what credit they give. Not saying that should stop them from giving credit though, but in some ways Disney's reaction is...understandable to some extent, if pretty transparent.

edited 27th Apr '12 8:02:25 AM by blueflame724

Isn't kimba/simba the Swahili word for lion anyway? Besides Timon and Pumba standing in for Rosencranz and Guildenstern, Zassu is pretty close to the character of Polonius, and Scar seems more like another Shakespearean Evil Uncle, Richard III. Rafiki doesn't fit anyone in Hamlet, but Eccentric Mentor is a pretty common character type.

Was it his mother? People have been treating that scene as the smoking gun and it wasn't even the same relationship?

It's only a cosmetic change, though.

I could write a Snow White story where it's the stepfather who wants to kill her, but if I still keep the poisoned apple, the dwarves and the prince, everyone will notice the inspiration source anyway.

Such is the result of Did Not Do The Research.

The cast of characters in Kimba The White Lion is definitely bigger than the cast in The Lion King.

• KTWL vs. TLK
• Panja/Caesar vs. Mufasa
• Eliza/Snowene vs. Sarabi
• Leo/Kimba vs. Simba
• Buzara/Mandy/Dan'l Baboon vs. Rafiki
• Bubu/Claw/Jamar vs. Scar
• Coco/Pauly Parrot vs. Zazu
• Lyre/Kitty/Leah/Laia/Raija/Raiya/Raya/Lyra vs. Nala
• Dick/Tom vs. Banzai
• Bo/Tab vs. Ed
• Gargoyle T. Warthog vs. Pumbaa

Well, these are the characters from both shows that seem to be the most comparable to each other. I might have missed a few!

edited 27th Apr '12 11:56:43 AM by TiggersAreGreat

Cosmetic perhaps, but when people are harping on exact details for their argument, the less exact those details are the less credibility the argument has.

i say it's just a coincidence

No coincidence. Disney is full of thieves and plagiarists and Walt hates Jews.

I think he said something along the lines of "If they used my work as inspiration, I'm pretty damm proud it resulted in such a wonderful movie".

I do recall his daughter saying (after his death, I think) that he would have been honored if they based Lion King on Kimba. Besides, he started by copying Disney's own efforts, which is why (what with him being the true God of Comics -sorry Grant Morrison, but that's his official, posthumous title!) every manga and anime in Japan today features Mickey Mouse eyes. )

edited 27th Apr '12 3:54:37 PM by Sijo

Yeah, you look at Buddha by Tezuka and in Volume 2 there's a witch (in India, no less) that looks exactly like the witch from Snow White.

Zazu as Polonius: No. Polonius is a malaproper, an incompetent henchman and the father of Hamlet's love interest. Zazu is fairly verbally deft, quite good as a majordomo and not the father of Nala at all. There's not nearly enough similarity to justify that comparison beyond "they're both working for the king, regardless of who that king is".

@CTM

Are you trying to be funny?

I'll leave that to you to ponder.

Tezuka himself also did a manga adaptation of Bambi and ended up becoming friends with Walt sometime around the 1964 World's Fair. Walt was apparently a fan of Astroboy.