Certainly not a clear name. I'd assume it to have something to do with semantics or ambiguity resolving the plot.
This article is old enough for having an archived discussion.
Crosswicking and searchable redirects should indeed be implemented.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Rename it Vain Villain Victory?
For this trope, does the villain have to win, or can he be defeated? Also, it is this trope where the villain "wins", but the hero defeats the villain when the villain isn't looking?
edited 14th Apr '12 8:45:43 PM by spacemarine50
Laconic: Evil wins but gets nothing.
Is it that simple, or are their other conditions required to be this trope? Also, the name is, uhh. Something that actually describes the trope is needed.
I see the Awesomeness.
Subverted The Bad Guy Wins. Cause that's what it is.
Fight smart, not fair.
What about Pyrrhic Victory by the villain (price of win might as well be a loss)? Won the War, Lost the Peace? Xanatos Gambit by the hero (let the villain win; defeat him later)? How are they compared to the trope in question?
edited 16th Apr '12 12:28:42 AM by spacemarine50
Subverted Villain Victory? Hmmm Well being a subversion means that anything else could happen as a result of the villain winning, but in this particular case, they get nothing out of it. Pyrrhic Victory can overlap with it if neither side ends up getting anything out of it, but the trope is still quite distinct from it.
edited 16th Apr '12 10:58:56 AM by DRCEQ
edit: oh, hey, that actually exists... and somewhat overlaps this
edited 16th Apr '12 1:43:26 PM by dna
Anyone else want to chime in on this one?
Ave Imperator
I can't view the page now for some reason, but if there's not that many examples, we could just merge it into phyrric villainy as a subtype that's not distinct enough to have it's own article.
This is a signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
It has a very healthy list of examples on the page. It just doesn't have any inbounds.
Name should be more indicative. Any ideas?
That's what this thread is for. I've posted my suggestions in the thread already.
We still need to distinguish this trope from the other "villain wins, but (something bad for the villain)" tropes.
It's distinguishable enough. The villain gets nothing after all his hard work and scheming actually work out and pay off.
Ravenous Sophovore
Clocking due to lack of activity.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Ravenous Sophovore
Crowner pasted to thread.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
William Shakespeare is not ambiguous.
People can get the reference without being sure of what it's supposed to mean.
The thing to do is to go to the pages it links to and link back. I'm happy to do this, would anyone else like to help?
Gentleman Troper!
Note that there is a 2010 movie called Pound Of Flesh and an unrelated 2007 book called A Pound Of Flesh, neither of which features this trope.
I think the phrase "pound of flesh" is far more well-known than this particular twist, and the lack of inbounds seems to indicate that.
Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
That's three more inbounds. I'm on vacation, will do more later.
Crown Description:
I came across this trope the other day, and despite that William Shakespeare is the Trope Namer, the trope itself has no clear redirects, and it hasn't brought in very many wicks.
Pound of Flesh Twist found in: 33 articles, excluding discussions.
Since January 1, 2011 this article has brought 17 people to the wiki from non-search engine links.
For a trope with such a healthy list of examples, it certainly doesn't have many inbounds.
The article itself is fairly straightforward: The villain of the story gets nothing after all his hard work pays off.
I propose a few redirects... maybe even possibly just renaming the trope itself to something far more.... blunt, such as The Villain Gets Nothing or Winning Villain Gets Nothing. There's just something about it's name as it is that comes off as awkward and clunky. Pound Of Flesh Twist. The words "Flesh Twist" just sounds... weird. It'd make more sense to me if it was called, if nothing else, "Pound of Flesh Plot Twist" or "Story Twist". As I said, Shakespeare is the namer, so the term has been around for some time, it would seem.. but maybe going with something far more direct would be more beneficial.
What do you folks think? If you think it's a non-issue, then lets just close up this thread and delete it, allowing another trope that needs to be repaired have it's own thread then.
edited 14th Apr '12 10:08:40 AM by DRCEQ