Batman General Discussion

I think it could add to his effectivness as villains would see him going against big threats and surviving/.

That's definitely a Your Mileage May Vary question! I will say that Justice League cranks the Crazy-Prepared part of Batman Up To Eleven. Of course, it causes his defeats in his own books to make him look stupid.

By the way, have you guys seen this?

When you have a franchise that is over 70 years old, I'm afraid that some characters are doomed to fall by the wayside. Of course, with a name like Polka-Dot Man, how could anyone be expected to take such a character seriously? <Raises eyebrow>

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Yeah, it would still make him look tough and all but wouldn't criminals realize that this guy's not some sort of immortal death bringing bat demon and might lose their fear of Batman. After all, criminals would be more afraid of someone who they didn't know how they do the things they do. For example, in Batman Begins, when the crooks and Scarecrow see Batman fly up in the air, they assume that he can really fly. They don't realize that his soaring is caused by a grappling hook pistol. That sort of mysteriousness is, in my opinion, what makes Batman such an effective crimefighter. But when he joins the League and criminals find out that he's just a normal dude in a crazy costume with a bunch of fancy gadgets, that fear is diminshed and he's just another man, albeit a Crazy-Prepared man with a ton of skills. Just my opinion though.

Eh like I said it might make them more scared of him. He goes up against huge threats with just being himself and is still alive, and kicks their asses.

It might make them respect him...not necessarily fear him like they used to do when he was sort of an urban legend. For example, most people respect Green Arrow as a worthy opponent but they don't fear him because they know what he is: he's a regular guy who's a really good archer who utilizes Trick Arrows.

Googled Batman 16. It took me to Volume 1's Batman 16. There's some ironic things in the plot summery:

"The Joker Reforms!"

"Here Comes Alfred (Batman, Alfred) - Alfred, son of Bruce Wayne's father's butler, Jarvis, shows up at Wayne Manor and brings trouble with him!"

I think Batman would always scare the low-level crooks; most of the types who would put on costumes to commit their crimes I would imagine are not so much afraid of him as wary of him. There seems to never be any shortage of crooks who feel they have what it takes to mix it up with him and who inevitably get their asses handed to them.

The city's underworld slowly starting to fear Batman less and less has been kind of in the background for a while, like was said already has changed to people being wary and cautious rather than actually afraid, but I kind of feel like it should've been put to the forefront at least once while the transition was happening.

Sure, sometimes a Big Bad will bring it up - and the Rogues don't fear him at all anymore (except sometimes Scarecrow) - but for what amounts to the entire underworld of the city standing up and saying "we're not afraid of you anymore, what are you going to do about it?"... now that would've made a nice story.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

You know I sort of miss the yellow ring.

That's something that needs to be timed both with the Batman comics and Justice League to be done correctly. But they never really reboot Batman so it won't work properly.

Am I a good man or a bad man?

If anything, if I were a crook, I'd fear Batman even more if I knew killing him would bring the Justice League after my butt.

But that's not what Batman's about. You're not supposed to fear his allies, you're supposed to fear him. And if the Underworld slowly starts to not fear him, Batman's not doing his job.

There's a give and take. On the one hand he isn't so mysterious, on the other he's standing shoulder to shoulder (and possibly ordering around) Superman.

Batman loses some of his fear factor once it's established he's human and not a bat monster. Then when they figure out he'll work with the police, won't kill criminals etc. There's more to Batman than just scaring criminals and he will be able to rely on that aspect less and less as his career moves on.

edited 20th Dec '12 5:09:14 AM by C0mraid

Am I a good man or a bad man?

Mmmmm...yeah, but his mysteriousness is kinda what makes him so effective. If he fights ten scared gunmen, it will be a lot easier than him fighting ten gunmen who know who he is and are thinking enough to put up defensive positions and whatnot.

Still, you guys raise a valid point. I'm beginning to reevaluate the basis of Batman's career because of it. As seen in Year One, Batman's first goal was to take out organized crime and police corruption. He did so, for the most part but to do that, he had to use his mysteriousness and fear to accomplish. Once, he accomplished that, he then started to make sure that Gotham could survive without him, as seen by making Gordon the Commissioner, getting a buttload of sidekicks and other people using his name. Then he shifted from the "purger" of Gotham, to the "guardian" of Gotham. Now, instead of actively seeking out criminals, nowadays, Batman still goes on patrol but is mainly focused on protecting the city, rather than purging the bad elements from it. That's why he joined the League, so he could protect people more. The good side of these steps is:

1) Organized crime is basically gone; the mob has no power and they are very rarely mentioned in today's stories.

2) Police corruption is down; while corruption exists everywhere, there is no longer a corrupt mayor or commissioner and the number of corrupt cops have severely diminished. This is a huge help to the citizens of Gotham.

3) Gotham can survive without him; see 1) and 2), but also because he has people like Robin, Batgirl, Ace the Bat-Hound, Huntress, and some of his villains, like Man-Bat and Bane are beginning to protect Gotham. Even Two-Face acts as sort of a vigilante...half the time.

The only negative is that crazy psychos replaced the mob; and most are after Batman. However, this con is outweighed by the previously mentioned pros. Anyway, sorry for the Wall of Text.

edited 20th Dec '12 5:17:51 AM by FantasyLiver

okay ignoring the whole Barbara gets paralyzed thing for this hypothetical.

All the Batgirls*

could use different personas if they wanted to fight crime together and keep from getting confused.

• Barbara Gordon = Batgirl
• Stephanie Brown = Spoiler
• Cassandra = Black
• Kathy Kane? = Batwoman

Could the Robin's do the same thing?

Off the top of my head

• Grayson: Nightwing
• Todd: Red Hood
• Drake: Red Robin
• Wayne: Robin
• Brown: Spoiler

Those are the only main verse ones right?

edited 20th Dec '12 2:48:08 PM by C0mraid

Am I a good man or a bad man?

Doesn't Batman regard this as a relatively good turn of events? Because all the time that they spend trying to take down Batman is time that they aren't trying to hurt civilians.

-Cough- I think the Robins have already done so. Let's see:

1. Dick Grayson - Nightwing.
2. Jason Todd - Red Hood.
3. Tim Drake - Red Robin.
4. Stephanie Brown - Spoiler.
5. Damian Wayne - Black Robin (Okay, I made up that one, but it would be kinda nice if they went with something like that).

edited 20th Dec '12 3:13:06 PM by TiggersAreGreat

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!

Agreed or Ghoul Robin

I find it interesting nether one of you omitted Stefanie, since she was Listed under the Bat girls.

The bit after the semi colon is a positive. But it's still worse for guys like the Joker and Mr Freeze to be in Gotham than regular criminals like Maroni.

edited 20th Dec '12 3:20:18 PM by C0mraid

Am I a good man or a bad man?

Yeah, I meant that in a positive way. Batman acts as a lightning rod. However, if Batman retired or died, for example in the Dark Knight Returns, most his rogues gallery would cease to exist. Joker would be bored, Riddler would have no one to match wits with, and Catwoman wouldn't have as much fun commiting crimes without Batman on her tail.

I just saw that video up there, wheres the Carpenter?

Oh, I don't think Batman's rogues gallery would vanish if he wasn't around. The Riddler would just get to feel he's superior to everyone when nobody could figure out his clues and the Joker, if no other costumed types showed up to thwart him, would stir up trouble until he went into his cooling off period (I have a theory that he's like a lot of serial killers...he'll have periods of activity followed by long periods of dormancy — like when he's in Arkham or presumed dead — during which he recharges and then starts the whole cycle over again), and, like the Riddler, he'd get to feel very empowered that no one could stop him. Catwoman would just be a high-class cat burglar who'd probably keep mostly to herself.

Oh, the Carpenter? Maybe the video didn't include her because she only started appearing in 2008! Still, she really didn't know who she was messing with, considering that her first encounter with Batman was a total Curb-Stomp Battle.

By the way, is there any chance of Joker's face being reattached? I personally have a hard time seeing that happen, considering that his fight with Damian has shown his face-skin beginning to rot and being eaten by maggots. Yuck! <Sticks out tongue in disgust>

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!

For the unelightened, who is the Carpenter?

A member of Mad Hatter's Wonderland Gang. She's a young woman who is handy at building deathtraps and stuff for other villains, and IIRC she palled around for a while with Harley and Ivy.