Batman General Discussion

JN played JN. Romero, I have no idea what he was going for. 1964-66 was a weird couple of years.

That bat-shark-repellent turned out to be useful after all.

Romero approached it like an adventure comedy, and played it, he thought, appropriately. He was shocked by the Burton movie, and said so. He'd never read the comics, and one can perhaps understand his perspective if the only Batman and Joker he was aware of were from the 60's TV series. It'd be hard to see where Burton's interpretation was coming from, if the TV show was all you had to go on. Interestingly, I remember when the film was released, judging from a number of reactions I heard, that was the case for a lot of folks. They'd only ever seen the TV series, so the Burton film was a tonal shock to them.

Batman Returns is still one of my favourite films of all time. Best Gotham movie.

edited 8th Jul '17 3:20:44 PM by TheHandle

I rather like the stylized gothic aesthetic from the Burton movies. I feel that no superhero film has ever done anything like it to this day. They also have what are probably the greatest soundtracks in that genre as well.

That White Knight story is pretty clearly going to be an AU. Like that one they're doing where Dick Grayson killed almost every superhero.

And imo, Romero's Joker was the best. I wish comic Joker was just a ridiculous clown who turned lakes into jelly. I'd read the shit out of that.

...

How do you even get an evil version of Dick Grayson? The main version is practically a combination of the best character traits of Superman and Batman. Seeing that no version would pull a Face–Heel Turn, is it an AU where some evil group gets a hold of him before Bruce does?

Nope. It's a universe where he, as Nightwing, decides that superheroes are bad, and joins a fascist movement to round up and kill them all. The story skips forward a few years, and has him pull a Heel–Face Turn, feeling guilty and trying to save his son.

A while back (on scans_daily, I think it was) someone proposed that a Mirror Universe 'good' Joker would probably function like the protagonist of V for Vendetta. There's something to that, I think... not just in the general Joker = Anarchy (= Chaos) equation, but in that they can both get incredibly personal with people they don't like. That ghost-train sequence from The Killing Joke? V did it at about five years earlier in his own story, and it actually worked there.

I think DCAU Joker was the best, at least earlier on. What was great about him was that he could be goofy and comedic, but also a legitimately terrifying and sinister villain without going into grimdark territory. This was a testament to the talent working on BTAS because it's really hard to have a character with that kind of range while making them consistent; which is funny because the fact that he's inconsistent is what makes sense since he isn't exactly a normal person. Real people have mood swings and can be very different depending on the day.

This meant that they could tell all sorts of stories with him, and it doesn't make things so bleak and terrible that the question of 'why isn't he dead yet' something that immediately pops up.

How come Cass and Steph aren't being used in books outside Detective Comics?

Some combination of writers not caring about them and writers not wanting to mess with Tynion's plans for them.

I'm just surprised they're not showing up in Bombshells United despite it involving Japanese internment camps, Cass being Asian herself and Marguerite Bennett supposedly being a fan of them.

edited 8th Jul '17 9:52:27 PM by windleopard

Yeah, Tynion has gone on record saying that his goal with Detective is to build up interest in the characters until we get solo titles for Cass, Steph, Luke, Azrael, etc.

And I have no idea why Bennett isn't using them. Hell, with a team of Batgirls, one of whom is Cassandra and Steph's best friend, they aren't on it? It makes no sense to me.

I really desperately want Cass and Steph to spin off into different books. My dream is a Stephanie Brown Batgirl book by Genevive Valentine, Bilquis Evely, and Jordie Bellaire.

Tynion is a reasonably good writer, but his Bob-Shreck-era fandom opinions tend to clash with my Batman-Reborn-era fandom opinions, especially when it comes to Stephanie. (I'm all about what he's doing with Azrael and Batwing and Clayface though)

So, how well has Tynion succeeded in building interest in Cass and Steph?

Also, how likely is Cass and Steph's exclusion from Bombshells due to editorial meddling? I know similar reasons were given for Donna's exclusion in the New 52.

Hopefully the phase Steph is in ends soon. I know she's grieving but it doesn't make it any less annoying how she keeps on breaking the Bat-Signal & has this rather self-righteous narration now. I mean good job Steph you gave the police credit for a crime they couldn't deal with (I'm being sarcastic). If your trying to instill faith in the police I don't think you should be giving them false-praise cause isn't lying against the message your giving out here?

At least she met someone who appears to have big plans so hopefully her coming to her senses is what the next major arc is gonna deal with after they help Azrael with his problem.

At least she's not trying to murder innocent people to piss Bruce off like Jason did pre-Flashpoint.

Jason Todd killed innocents?!

He once killed some security guards in Morrison's run and once blew up a train earlier. He's also attempted to kill Dick and Tim.

To be fair, so did Damian, if I remember correctly.

But, yeah, that's appalling.

Yeah, Jason was a mass murderer before Flashpoint.

And odds are, the arc after this current one will show Stephanie coming to a better point. It involves her working with Anarky, and realizing how fucked up his ideology is. I don't think she'll rejoin the batfamily, but she'll likely become closer to her original self, from before War Games.

There's a panel in Batwoman: Rebirth #1 that seems to indicate she'll eventually rejoin the team.

Speaking of Batwoman, is the original Kathy Kane still around?

Sort of...? It's complicated.

Basically as it stands now, Kathy Webb-Kane is a pseudonym of Katrina Netz, one of the daughters of Otto Netz (Doctor Dedalus). She served as Agent Zero for Spyral, while also working for Leviathan.

She's in Grayson a lot, and is currently dead.

edited 9th Jul '17 4:53:09 PM by caivu

I don't understand the love for Batman Returns. It's dull, unfocused and silly in the wrong way.