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Anti-Villain Protagonist vs. Anti-Hero

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Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
#1: Apr 10th 2012 at 9:05:59 PM

Is there an overlap between an Anti-Villain who's a protagonist and an Anti-Hero? Seems like there could be.

Take Aldo Raine from Inglourious Basterds. To some, he's definitely a Type IV or V Anti-Hero. But if we consider him a Villain Protagonist (I don't personally, but I can see why many viewers do), he also fits into the criteria for Type III Anti-Villain. Raine genuinely seems to believe he's doing the right thing, that All Germans Are Nazis and deserve to suffer (Not incidentally, this makes him even more similar to the Nazis). Raine's motives should be at least a little sympathetic, but his brutal methods raise a lot of questions about how "good" he is.

Or, take Kratos from God Of War. He's either a very dark Type V Anti-Hero or an outright Villain Protagonist, but he has enough tragedy in his backstory to lean towards a Type II Anti-Villain, especially as his character develops and he displays a few potentially redeeming qualities.

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Lost in Space
#2: Apr 10th 2012 at 9:24:18 PM

The distinction is very clear. An Anti-Hero accomplishes heroic goals, no matter how crazy or psycho or whatever he may be. An Anti-Villain accomplishes villainous goals, no matter how honorable and forthright he may be.

There is plenty of overlap; a light Anti-Villain can be loads more Good, by classic morality, than a dark Anti-Hero. Except for that little problem: what's at the end of the plan — is it World Domination (traditionally a villainous goal) or Kill All The Criminal Scum (traditionally a heroic goal)?

Now, if it's Kill All The Criminal Scum So I Can Start My Own Slightly More Honorable Criminal Empire In Its Place, then you've almost certainly got an Anti-Villain.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
#3: Apr 10th 2012 at 9:26:44 PM

That's not what the trope page says. "Their desired ends are good, but their means of getting there are evil."

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theAdeptRogue iRidescence Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
iRidescence
#5: Nov 24th 2012 at 5:00:07 PM

"Their desired ends are good, but their means of getting there are evil."?

Doesn't that sound more like a Well-Intentioned Extremist?

DCC Since: Jun, 2011
#6: Nov 27th 2012 at 7:14:49 PM

A Well-Intentioned Extremist can be a Villain Protagonist or an Anti-Hero; it depends on just how extreme their actions are in comparison to their goal. (Being a bloodthirsty psycho in order to stop Nazi Germany is different from being a bloodthirsty psycho to stop litterbugs.)

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#7: Nov 27th 2012 at 7:34:56 PM

I was under the impression that a 'hero'-aligned Well-Intentioned Extremist was an Anti-Hero.

Ghostninja109 from there, not here. Since: Aug, 2011
#8: Nov 28th 2012 at 1:14:18 PM

Well-Intentioned Extremist seems to be where the two types of characters described in the first post overlap. Knight Templar can also apply to either.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#9: Dec 3rd 2012 at 3:01:44 AM

Let's not forget that a story with a heroic (or anti-heroic) protagonist can have a Downer Ending too, so 'their actions have bad results' is not exclusively the property of the Villain Protagonist.

What's precedent ever done for us?
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