Concepts for the seventh TVTropes writing contest

Some possible variations we could make to the next writing contest:

• The non-spec-fic requirement: Narrowly missed being included in the sixth. Since about half the entrants in the sixth turned in non-spec entries of their own volition, I'm leaning away from this.

• A Miss Congeniality contest: No judges; each entrant is expected to rank all the other entries. A neat solution to various judging difficulties (makes entering more of a commitment, though).

• An excerpt contest: Most of the contests have an entry that's pretty clearly not a stand-alone short story, but part of a larger work, and they usually don't fare that well (anyway I'm inclined to judge them pretty hard, because I feel they go against the spirit of the contest). This contest would be specifically for excerpts from larger works; the theme points would be awarded based on "How much do I want to read the rest of it?"

I have to say that I, for one, don't think particularly highly of any of these ideas. The "no spec-fic" thing has always kind of come with an air of Sci Fi Ghetto about it, and I'm not sure it's really a worthwhile theme anyway. The second idea (name is confusing) doesn't seem like it would end well, given how many judges already skip out due to time issues without the added burden of writing their own story. And I just plain don't like the whole concept of excerpts, in or out of the contest.

One of the writing sites I frequent has a rather unique approach to this.

They take a single concept—crime, action, machinery, et cetera—and require the contestant to incorporate one or more "components" in the work. These components vary with the overall theme—for example, Machinery might have, "Machine is sentient," and, "The machine aspect of the story is a metaphor," whereas a spec-fic might ask for you to include, "Normal humans are a rarity," or, "The majority of the story takes place in the sky."

It produces some interesting results. Usually, there's a list of components, from which the contestant picks one or two out, at a minimum.

edited 10th Apr '12 4:54:45 PM by FakeCrowley

You know what I hate? Hypocrites. That and obscure self-referential statements.

That's more of a theme. We'll get to those in due time, but this thread is about actual changes to the basic rules of the contest.

You never participate. Were you planning to this time?

I'm not interested in participating, but I am interested in judging - I did it for the fanfiction contest and would have done it for the sixth contest if real life hadn't gotten in the way. And since judging involves grading on themes, I think potential judges have every bit as much reason to contribute to the brainstorming threads.

edited 10th Apr '12 8:15:42 PM by nrjxll

Aw, darn, I want to read something of yours, nrjxll...

I'd love to either enter or judge this next one.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

I just plain don't have the time to write something solely for a contest, particularly given that I'm working on an "actual" project.

*shrug* I'd still like to see something of yours sometime. You talk a lot about other people's work, but I've only caught sideways glimpses of what you do on your own time, and it's frustrating to me, partly because I want to see what you have behind you and partly because you interest me enough as a person to have the idea of you writing something intriguing.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

Well, I'd be the first to admit that I'm not all that great at practicing what I preach. But more then that or any specific real-life issues, I've come to the conclusion that I'm inherently a big-project kind of guy. I can do short stories, but I don't really enjoy it that much.

If I ever actually get my webcomic started, this place will be one of the first to know about it, though.

Anyway, this is off-topic.

edited 10th Apr '12 9:21:06 PM by nrjxll

I do have to agree that the "no spec-fic" thing does feel a bit Sci Fi Ghetto. While I do think it might be interesting to have a contest devoted specifically to one genre (like "all entrants must be mystery stories" or "all entrants must include a romantic element"), I think holding that as a rule for all contests, regardless of the theme, is kind of ghettoizing. I heard a really great argument about the ghetto once, involving a story about meth addiction in a starship captain, but I can't reproduce it.

I do like the "Miss Congeniality" idea, but I'm concerned it would drive people away due to the double burden of entry. It's a nice idea in theory, but it also might cut into entrant's time more than it already does.

I think the last idea might just be too hard for some people. Not all of us here have longer works, after all, and even among those who do, it can be really hard to find something that works well enough on its own. Aside from maybe beginnings, but that just doesn't feel right to me for some reason. And that still has the "not everyone has a manuscript lying around" problem.

Question: Are these being proposed just for the sake of shaking things up next contest, or in an attempt to improve the contests as a whole?

edited 10th Apr '12 9:48:57 PM by FreezairForALimitedTime

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada

Just for the seventh was my intent. I am indeed not in love with the no spec-fic rule; I'm only including it here because it was getting kicked around rather seriously last time.

The "no spec-fic" concept was never supposed to reinforce the Sci Fi Ghetto. It was a reaction to the fact that if anything, the Writer's Block forum seems to have a reverse Sci Fi Ghetto. Just to clarify. (I'm neutral to the requirement, myself.)

I like the second idea (though it's not really a theme), and I'd be happy to judge as well as write. I realise that I may be in a minority, though.

Not too fond of the third idea. Excerpts of larger works are by definition unlikely to be as much fun to read as completed stories.

edited 11th Apr '12 7:51:23 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

FWIW, with the second one, entrants don't have to do the full scoring of all the entries—they just have to rank them from favorite to least favorite*

. But they still have to read all the other entries.

But if people like the standard contest format the best, then by all means, we can stay with that.

Sci Fi Ghetto doesn't exist on TV Tropes. How many people here say things like: "Oh, I don't watch Sci-Fi because it's all octopus aliens, lasers, and stupid techno music"? None.

The non-spec fic idea is a legitimate challenge.

edited 11th Apr '12 12:46:38 PM by Akagikiba

Another idea that was tossed around for the previous competition: a story based on a painting.

There have definitely been people on here who did advocate the Sci Fi Ghetto, though admittedly not that many.

And as far as the suggestion goes: on the one hand, I do understand the appeal of the idea - it's a good thing for writers to get outside their comfort zone, and here that's speculative fiction (really, fantasy). But on the other hand, there always has been this tinge of a "writers need to know how to write without SF/fantasy elements" mindset involved in the discussion, and that is associated with the Sci Fi Ghetto. You never see anyone saying "writers need to know how to write horror", for instance.

edited 11th Apr '12 1:54:38 PM by nrjxll

Okay, so a few people advocate Sci Fi Ghetto. That doesn't change the fact many people on this site strongly prefer spec fiction over realism fiction. You're worried that a non-spec fic contest would advocate Sci Fi Ghetto, but you need to see past that and realize that this is a good idea for a contest that takes people out of their comfort zones and gives them an interesting challenge: what stories do they find interesting outside of speculative fiction?

I don't need to do anything, thank you.

And I actually do agree that the suggestion is a good idea as far as taking people out of their comfort zone goes. But I don't like the implicit motives behind it, and so I'm very uncomfortable with making it a rule for the contest.

What implicit motives?

What I said up above: the idea that being able to write fiction without speculative elements is a skill writers "need" to have. I'm not saying this is why everyone supports the idea, but (at least in the last discussion) it was there.

Also, the more I think on it, the very fact that the idea seems so controversial - whether that's justifiable or not - seems like a good reason not to use it.

edited 11th Apr '12 2:47:45 PM by nrjxll

I'm sure some people would press the non-spec fic idea because they believe one needs to know how to write outside of spec fics to understand writing in general. I'm pressing it because of lot of people around here stick to spec fic and it'd be refreshing to see non-spec fic and figure out what people like to write about in realist settings.

For what its worth I agree here. Themes ought not to be quite so divisive IMO.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

I like the painting idea, but it seems a little similar to the "based off of Harris Burdick" idea we already did.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

Well, there are two modifications I could propose that might make things interesting:

1. While the subject must be a work of fine art, it need not be a painting. Sculpture, collage, installations and mixed media are all acceptable.
2. The work in question must be abstract or non-representational, hence redirecting the focus of the written work to the mood of the piece (and perhaps one's interpretation of the title or other aspects) rather than the immediate subject.

Note: I know that not everyone likes abstract or non-representational art. But at the same time, there are benefits to forcing the contestants to think outside the framework of overt description of a scene. To whit, there are numerous emotions to be mined: Even a strict formalist can tell you that a Rothko does not feel like a Pollack, nor a Miró like an Arp.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

Why not just have a "write something outside of your comfort zone" contest, then? Obviously it would have to be on good faith that a writer is writing outside their comfort zone, but perhaps we could have authors write a little blurb explaining what they chose and why. Exactly how it's outside of their comfort zone is up to them, but they do have to justify it somehow. For example, "I chose to write a mystery story with a bit more Gray-and-Black Morality than usual, because I usually write sci-fi with Black-and-White Morality, and wanted to see how I could solve problems without high technology, and with a bit more ethical grayness." Or, "I decided to write a protagonist with completely the opposite religious beliefs from me, because I wanted to try writing a complex character whom I disagree with without turning them into a strawman."

I've actually been doing this personally as a Self-Imposed Challenge for 3/4ths of the contests I've entered, but maybe it's something other people would be into.*

edited 11th Apr '12 9:25:11 PM by FreezairForALimitedTime

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada