Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

Luke was able to contact her with the Force at the end of Empire and The Law of Conservation of Detail dictates that she was a candidate anyway.

edited 30th Sep '16 5:35:26 PM by Karxrida

jediuser has re-added the Return of the Jedi and Star Wars prequel examples back on Seasonal Rot.

Suspended and reverted.

I'm getting a bit concerned about the content on Dota 2. Namely, some of the entries seem to be getting used as an outlet for negativity.

Reactionary Fantasy seems to be a magnet for Complaining About Shows You Dont Like, such as the Deer Hunter entry.

That trope definitely looks like it's being misused. Maybe the description needs some clarification? it looks to me like this trope is supposed to be when the creator is deliberately creating a work that subverts whatever message is considered progressive at the time, but people are using it to mean works that try to actually be progressive but fail (which I think is a different trope). Then of course, we have the examples where it looks like someone just didn't agree with the message or how it was presented.

I think there used to be a trope about a work that tries to be progressive but fails. It was called Supposedly Rebellious Series, but it was cut because it was full of complaining.

Which doesn't exactly paint a good picture for Reactionary Fantasy.

That "different trope" would have been Supposedly Rebellious Series, which was cut for being pure complaining. It does seem like Reactionary Fantasy is focusing more on the negative traits instead of the positive ones.

EDIT: Ninja'd! >_<

edited 5th Oct '16 6:21:02 PM by MyFinalEdits

That was the trope I was thinking of. Doing a search for it reveals that it was indeed cut a few months ago for being complain-y and redundant to other tropes. It also looks like somebody brought up the distinction between these two tropes last year, but that thread was locked.

I understand now it was a mistake making another Star Wars post without consulting the forum. I am still new to TV Tropes and didn't even think to go to the discussion page. However, I would also like to reiterate that it was never my intention to spite anyone or start an edit war. I understand that my original post was long and smacked of complaining, so I thought that if I made a shorter one which got straight to the point it would be accepted. I am just wondering, now that I am discussing it with the forum, is there any possibility that a post on Star Wars would be accepted? I understand that the prequel trilogy is more divisive than hated by the fanbase, and honestly, I do not hate the prequel trilogy, except for The Phantom Menace. Even so, I feel it would be in line with some of the other movie series on the page, like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, since Phase 2 is generally considered a slight step down at most (the worst received film, Thor: The Dark World, got a %65 on rotten tomatoes). There are a good number of fans like myself who feel they are inferior to the original trilogy (with the possible exception of Episode III). Same with Return of the Jedi. So, is there any way a Star Wars post would work? I would be excited if it was accepted.

Keep in mind that a Dork Age is much more than just a mere slump on reviews or fan reaction. Usually, depending on how, why and when it happens, the slump may be just a Seasonal Rot, a Sophomore Slump, a case of Sequelitis or simply a divisive season or arc. A Dork Age gravely compromises the quality and even survival of the work; if it's not overcome with a better season/installment/sequel/etc. then that'll be the end. Even with the mixed reactions regarding the prequels, there was still a lot of merchandising, spin-offs and Expanded Universe material on the way, and it continued that way after the prequels were released.

Look at it this way: Has there been a period in which, as a whole (not just the main movies), the Star Wars franchise met with a slump? An easy mistake one can make when talking about franchises is to focus only on the core works.

From what I've heard the old Legends continuity definitely had a Dork Age or 5 with the novels. We'd need a huge SW continuity nerd that's been entrenched in the fandom to confirm though.

edited 6th Oct '16 11:11:11 PM by Karxrida

That's actually a trickier question than it seems: where I come from, the "main" novel continuity that focused on the characters of the original trilogy is definitely considered to have suffered a drop in quality in the post-New Jedi Order novels. (Some would argue that it began with those novels, but that's much more debated). The thing is, though, there were always lots of other eras and mediums that new Star Wars material was coming out in, much of it better received. So if the prequels can't count as a Dork Age because of better-received expanded universe material^note and a more mixed reception than the nerdsphere would have it, but that's irrelevant to this point, then this wouldn't either.

-My Final Edits

I was not arguing a full dork age. I was just making note of a period of the franchise that wasn't as well received as the others. If you're gonna talk about how profitable it was, Episode II made the least money of any film in the series, and episode I didn't live up to its insane expectations.

Also, if you're going by that rule, do you think maybe you should nix Marvel Phase 2? From what I've seen and what I read, it's a small step down from phase 1 at best. It certainly hasn't begun rotting just yet.

Given that, at worst, they're Contested Sequels and otherwise they've been very succesful, I would nix it. In fact, aren't Guardians of the Galaxy and Winter Soldier usually ranked among the best movies in the MCU? 'Cuz they're Phase 2 material, and not only they had exceptional box offices but also ranked highly among critics (91% and 89% respectively). I have the impression that the one who wrote that example only took into account the first few movies (Thor Dark World and Iron Man 3), which did have some dissenting opinions.

This is just my take, though. Wait until the other people gives theirs before considering removing that example.

Nix it. Phase 2 had issues but none of its movies are outright bad, plus it has those aforementioned gems.

Yeah, definitely not an example. Some very well-received films plus some films that were less well-received but still overall successful isn't a Dork Age. I'm not sure it's even a "slump".

(Also, while this is pretty anecdotal, most fans I know still consider Iron Man 2 to be the weakest MCU movie - not any of the later ones).

Taking my advice I see. Yeah, that's the point I was making. At worst, it's a slight step down from phase 1 but on the whole the MCU is pretty consistent. Even at its worst, like Thor: The Dark World, it isn't really bad enough to be considered 'rot.' And Iron Man 3? That one wasn't as good as the original, but it was definitely better than Iron Man 2, which suffered from too much setup and too little payoff.

A very large entry on the Presidential election was added to Overshadowed by Controversy by a troper named Ryanasaurus. The information seems accurate, but a) are we really the right place to be covering elections? and b) it describes Trump's meltdown after those incriminating clips were released with tropes like Moral Event Horizon and Villainous Breakdown, and much as I don't like the guy, describing real people with villain tropes is against site rules. Thoughts?

Completely against the rules. Kill it.

Done.

I feel like ryanasaurus has been an issue before. The name sounds familiar, possibly from ATT.

edited 11th Oct '16 6:03:22 PM by nrjxll

Yes. If he tries to edit war over that, he's going to be in more trouble.

User Nyuk Nyuk 2000 added the following entry to Unintentionally Unsympathetic:

• Breezy from Rip Haywire is supposed to be a good girl and the perfect love interest for the title character but comes across as a prissy, self-righteous Mary Sue who looks down on everyone who isn't 100% perfect.

I know less than nothing about whatever Rip Haywire is, so maybe it's a legit example and I just don't know it, but as written this comes off as straight Complaining About Characters You Dont Like.

Thoughts?