Please read the rules below before posting. We're taking turns to post text, and text posted out of turn will be hollered.
The discussion over at the "Is being Troperiffic a Bad Thing?"
thread got a few of us seriously talking about starting a full-fledged, free for all dedicated ConCrit thread. Thanks go to your friendly neighborhood Herald, Chihuahua0, for giving this the go-ahead 
This is how it's going to work:
- This thread is for helping people improve as writers. Please stay away from needlessly gushing or needlessly being mean when handing out criticism.
- No mentioning your own work when giving out criticism. This is to prevent "Let's talk about ME" derails.
- Feedback will be given to one person at a time. We're taking a deliberately slow pace; a person's turn to get feedback is generally supposed to last a week, but we're not ending someone's turn until they get feedback from at least five different people. On the other hand, the person getting feedback can end their own turn if they figure they're done.
- When a turn ends, we wait 12 hours to see if anyone of the people who have just given feedback wants to be up next. If they don't, we pick the person up next from the feedback request list.
- Yes, it's okay to point out spelling and grammar errors made by the person you're giving feedback to.
- If you're unfamiliar with the original verse of a piece of Fan Fiction up for feedback, pretend it's a piece of original fiction and criticize accordingly.
- If and when you step up to receive feedback:
- Post actual writing (not world-building, concepts, layouts, character lists and so on).
- Be specific in what you are looking for, or at least mention what is troubling you the most.
- Fan Fiction is fine, but take into account that anyone not familiar with the source material will judge your piece "blind", essentially by the same standards as original fiction. This means you might get called out on flaws that fan fiction usually gets away with in practice, perhaps even justifiably so. Just like any other kind of criticism, consider it or ignore at at your discretion.
- Be ready to hear some things you probably didn't want to hear. This should go without saying, but, please: No being bitter, being sarcastic, calling people out for "going too far" or otherwise expressing disapproval of the criticism given to you. If you think people are being unfair to your writing, make your case civilly.
With that said, I suppose we can begin and see whether this goes anywhere. The first person to respond with a post to the extent of "I'll go first" will go first.
edited 17th Feb '12 5:07:01 PM by TripleElation
You havn't been forgotten, I'm pondering your text.
So I really liked it. I esp. like your writing style- once the dialogue gets started I was fully immersed in it. It felt like two real people having a conversation. However, I'm not going to do a line by line critique, because I think the overall structure and organization of the scene needs some work, and if you take any of my advice the lines are going to change. First off, I think it takes too long to get to the dialogue. The italicized part at the very beginning, which begins too abruptly, doesnt stand on it's own and also doesnt contribute anything to the following scene. Then there is a couple of paragraphs of backstory before the scene shifts to the present. I would drop everything that comes before "There was a big flu scare that summer." If what came before is important to the story later on, you could begin the next scene with it. Other than that I think it's pretty good. I hope you continue to work on it.
Troll Logician
Thanks, and yeah, I'll be working on it.
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
So I typed up nearly 12 pages of backstory for the premise of an animated cartoon I've been working on for a while, but I don't know how to link to it (I've only got it on a Word document right now). Before I go ahead with asking for any constructive criticisms, I want to ask for if there's any kind of place I can put it and link it here.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
If you have a Google account, make a Google Doc and set permissions to Anyone Can Comment- it's really nice for letting other people suggest stuff without letting anyone alter the text. But if you don't have a Google account and don't feel like setting one up, there's Free Text Host. (Make sure to set an admin password so you can check for formatting.)
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
Well then, this would be pretty damn easy to link to, then. I used Google docs back when I was in sophomore year at high school.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/136eAyAnvXv0iGNvSHa9DK-jAtr32hokzmwWxvLFazZs/edit?usp=sharing
I admit, it's not much. I more or less laid out backstory, described the world it's in, and made a plot for a pilot. No dialogue or anything.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
So is anyone gonna say anything about my story? I'm a tad antsy about feedback.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Patience, dude, it takes a few days.
So, first, who is this intended for? Is this a proposal letter? Because it's written like it's intended for publication, rather than a reference source.
edited 2nd Jan '16 6:28:37 PM by DeMarquis
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
Didn't know that, sorry. This is the first time I've done this, and I really want my friends to see it.
It's more of me making background for an animated series. I want to make a more adult oriented one to kind of break the age ghetto a bit. Try it out on HBO or something. I wanted to write out an outline for plot and then edit it into a better world and story.
edited 2nd Jan '16 6:32:05 PM by AdricDePsycho
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Queen of the Snakes
Sorry if I'm intruding on somebody else's turn, but I posted a link to my work two months ago and nobody ever got back to me.
Why is that?
Ryoko.
There's not many people active on this thread. Why dont you critique Adric's contribution and then he may do yours?
@Adric: As background, I dont see anything wrong with it. It's kind of hard to critique a setting without seeing the story that is supposed to take place in it. I think you have more than enough detail now and should start writing scenes. I would recommend against putting any more detail into setting and background until you have some of the story written. It's tempting and easy to get so caught up in worldbuilding, but that tends to suck time and energy from the thing that should be most important- writing the story. Why dont you write a couple of scenes and then link us to them?
edited 15th Jan '16 2:50:19 PM by DeMarquis
I've gotten repeated Zero-Content Examples warning for pages across the Pokemon video games, even though I do include some explanation along with the actual trope. Can someone help me improve if I give an example of what I posted?
Pokemon Black & White- Ship Level: The Royal Unova, an optional cruise ship that can be sailed on after the main game is completed. Like any ship in a Pokémon game it includes trainers to battle.
You want this thread. Besides, not everyone who frequents Writer's Block contributes to the wiki regularly.
(I personally think you could do with mentioning that there's items to be had amidst the trainers, as well if there's any super-valuable items you won't find anywhere else. [I think you can find the Leftovers there?] But I'm kind of biased because I've played that game, so you should run it by them anyways once you edit the example to mention items.)
"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I am writing some scenes at the moment, thanks for the input. Also, I changed the idea of making it a cartoon. I'm probably gonna make it a webcomic.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Queen of the Snakes
Well, just in case somebody does want to constructively critique me, here it is again.
My main concerns are that the characters might be Mary Sues (especially Eve), and that the dialogue and scenes don't flow very well. I'm also afraid that the character descriptions and the two fight scenes I have so far may be a bit lazy.
If you don't have Dropbox and don't want to make an account, let me know and I'll just post one chapter at a time for you.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3qt5adp16xhp7i/24%20ds.docx?dl=0
edited 9th Feb '16 7:58:46 PM by Sugarp1e1
Ryoko.
I have a Google Doc's account. Could you put it there?
Queen of the Snakes
Here you go. Sorry about the format; too lazy to fix it on an iPad.
Ryoko.
1. I can't yet decide if I would consider any of your characters Mary Sues, but I will say it's quite likely that I will if I read any more.
2. You misuse "you're": in Chapter 1:
and here in Chapter 2:
3. In Chapter 4 you have sentences with missing verbs.
4.
5.Eve being the Dragon Child of life might be more obvious than you intended her to be.
6. I think it reads better to actually write out numbers. "twenty-five" instead of "25".
7. If you don't plan on deconstructing Eve's martyr-ness it's just going to seem silly.
I have more criticisms but I have a headache now so I'll save them for later.
edited 6th Feb '16 7:52:11 PM by spudsabre
Since I'm feeling better now, I'll continue:
8. Tedrick just accepting Ren as an ally after he went around destroying buildings and causing panic is not believable.
9. Neither is Ren asking Tedrick
10.
11.
12.
13.
14. Since Eve says she wants to go fight Dallas, I presume that she means she wants Tedrick and Ren to fight Dallas while she supports with healing. So why doesn't she?
15. Why would they agree to fight Dallas one at a time to start with? Or with no strategy beyond "charge him and see what happens".
16. Everything happens too fast. I think there should be more time for Tedrick and Ren to join forces and more time between Tedrick meeting Eve and the death dragon appearing.
17.
18. Ren objecting to fighting Dallas doesn't seem like something he would do based on earlier characterization.
19. The way you deliver exposition, either by having Tedrick address the reader or through dialogue doesn't flow well. Everything reads less like "what someone in this situation would actually say" and more like "what they need to say so the reader knows such and such"
edited 6th Feb '16 8:58:25 PM by spudsabre
Queen of the Snakes
1. Any suggestions on how to prevent that?
2. Fixed.
3. Fixed.
4. Fixed. Was there an even worse terrorist attack I don't know about? Because either way, Ren caused quite a panic.
5. I was afraid of that. Ren lampshades it in Chapter 5, but I know that doesn't excuse it. Not sure how to make it more ambiguous though.
6. Fixed.
7. You're referring to her pacifism, aren't you? I do plan on deconstructing that actually. But my Writer's Block is in the way.
8. Tedrick took into consideration that Ren didn't directly hurt anybody. I should make that more obvious.
9. Ren figured Tedrick wasn't on the Dragon Lords' side since he stole from a store instead of destroying it. But there was also a possibility that he was neutral. So he asked.
10. Acknowledged. Not sure how to fix it though.
11. How do I fix that?
12. Tedrick is supposed to be a bit dense without being downright stupid. But seeing as how Ren points how he doesn't seem to have a common sense, I deleted the final line. Now Ren punches him just as he tells him to get up and fight.
13. Is there a better way to word it?
14. She was about to heal Tedrick but got distracted by Dallas beating Ren.
15. Inazuma taught Tedrick how to use his powers, but she doubted his intelligence and didn't bother to teach him any strategies. She basically considered him a mindless weapon. Eve just wanted to sit on the sidelines and be the healer. And while Ren IS the type to come up with a strategy, he didn't know what Tedrick is capable of and didn't want to ask him to do anything he couldn't do. Besides, they didn't know anything about Dallas beyond his name, seriousness for fighting, and Element. So they had nothing to go on.
16. That's gonna be tough to do. But I'll try.
17. Last time I checked, Ritalin is a depressant when you're a child and a stimulant when you're an adult. So it's used as treatment for children with ADHD and adults with narcolepsy. Dallas is 17. If the effect of Ritalin in teens is the same as in adults, I would either delete that line or keep it in as gag. Again, Tedrick's no idiot but he's no genius either.
18. Not sure how to fix that.
19. The book is meant sound like Tedrick is writing in a diary/journal. YMMV, but I think it's better than always using dialogue to drop info dumps on the readers.
edited 7th Feb '16 2:11:37 AM by Sugarp1e1
Ryoko.
1. Not really, just more characterization. Be aware of giving your characters an Informed Flaw if you're trying to avoid Mary Sues.
4. You didn't specify "terrorist attack" in the text but that doesn't matter if you've changed it.
5. For one, having Dallas call Eve his "polar opposite" is a huge clue.
6. That's just my opinion. I don't know what the general consensus is.
7. I meant her "kill me instead of the guy I just met" and taking in random people into her house out of pity tendencies.
8. Yes. If the idea is that "this is Tedrick's diary/journal" it should be more clear on his thoughts.
9. But why would Ren presume Tedrick has a position within a conflict when as far as Ren knows, Tedrick doesn't know about it and is just living his life? Tedrick says he's protecting the humans but it reads like he doesn't know he has anything to protect them from. Is Tedrick aware of the Dragon Lords and their plans?
10. I'm not sure either. You could have it so "boy with metal face punched down buildings" gets mixed in with other rumours and no one really knows what happened. But that would require very few people to have actually seen it happen and for no one to take pictures or video successfully.
11. I would just remove it completely.
13. Not really. Just don't have "we're gonna convince them by beating" them be explicit. The goal should be to find the other Dragon Children and convince them. "Beating" them should be a matter of necessity, not a definite part of the plan.
14. I thought that might be the case. I think it would work better if Eve summoned her barrier at the very beginning of the fight, for common sense.
15. And all that needs to be established in the text. It still doesn't make sense why Tedrick and Ren wouldn't both attack Dallas. You can give them a reason why only Tedrick attacks at first, but it needs to actually be in the text rather than having them agree to fight one one one for no apparent reason. If they go along with Dallas' "rules" with no incentive when they think he would actually kill them, it comes across as Honor Before Reason which you can have be an intentional part of Tedrick's character, it just needs to be established.
16. Indeed but it will be worth it in my opinion.
17. You can have "Ritalin causes sociopathy" which is what it reads like, to be a part of Tedrick's characterization but you'll want it to come across better as a "character error" not an "author error". It would help to better establish Tedrick's character or have someone else lampshade it.
18. Do you need a character to object? You can still have them discuss whether its a good idea or not without having any one be against it. Like Ren could say something like "but on the other hand..." and give his reasons why they might not want to go fight Dallas.
19. Info dumps should be avoided in general. You want what's said to come across as natural. For one, having Ren bring up how there are specifically twenty-five Dragon Children doesn't read like natural dialogue. It would flow better for Tedrick to ask how many there are and for Ren to answer. Not in that scene specifically, that seems more like something they'd discuss at Eve's mansion. Similarly, the exposition about Eve that Ren gives at the beginning of Chapter 2 doesn't have a good flow to it either.
Queen of the Snakes
1. Okay.
4. Okay.
5. Fixed. I deleted the "polar opposite" part of the sentence. I also deleted a sentence in Chapter 4 where Dallas tells Eve that her power is equal but opposite to his.
6. Okay. Looks better to me though so I'll keep it that way.
7. Fixed. Now Tedrick lampshades it in Chapters 3 and 4.
8. Fixed. Now Tedrick's narrative has him realizing that Ren never attacked anybody; just buildings.
9. Fixed. It's now explained that Tedrick protects the city from dragons and that he thought he's the only human with powers prior to meeting Ren. Also, Ren DID think he knew. When they meet the second time, he asks him if he's his "cousin".
10. I'm not sure if it's "fixed", but I changed it. Now Tedrick explains that the police concluded that the attack may be related to similar attacks they've had earlier that year. And that he saved the city from all of them, using his super speed to keep people from seeing him clearly.
11. Fixed.
13. Fixed.
14. Changed. Eve puts a barrier around herself and Tedrick after Dallas beats him, but the latter destroys the barrier before she could heal the former.
15. Fixed. Now, in Chapter 2, the narrative explains that Tedrick never learned any strategies from Inazuma. I also changed Dallas' note. Now he demands that they don't try to gang up on him or else he'll end the limbo at the expense of the surrounding area.
16. Okay.
17. Fixed. Now Tedrick just asks if Dallas is on anything, period. Not specifically Ritalin. That line was a bit Narmy anyway now that I think about it.
18. Changed. Ren still questions wether or not fighting Dallas is a good idea. But he doesn't exactly protest it anymore; he's just unsure.
19. I tried to fix it, but I don't think it improved much. You may want to see for yourself.
edited 7th Feb '16 2:51:11 PM by Sugarp1e1
Ryoko.
I really hope someone else jumps in with their opinion, but here's more of my thoughts:
5. I'm honestly doubtful that having it revealed via 'cue dramatic music' scene works. But YMMV since I can't tell what someone reading it for the first time would think.
6. Then you might want to consider changing
9. Ren saying "“Are you protecting the humans, or trying to destroy them?” is still quite narmy. Something like "do you serve the dragons?" would work better in my opinion.
15. You should also have Tedrick express confidence that he can beat Dallas on his own.
19.
PAINKILLER
About the Narmy bits, don't abuse exclamation points and interrobangs (!?) . Use other words for "said" or an action to show surprise if that's what you want to convey.
Life is hard, that's why no one survives.
Here goes nothing, then.
Note, might be a while before I get all the formatting correct.I can't find the preview option, so I'm still editing this post.Everything seems fine now, format wise, so I'll talk about the story a bit. The overall story of the story will be about the war of succession that happens when the young queen of Tara drops dead from her palace exploding. Tara is ruled by an elective monarchy, so the thirteen prince electors each have a single vote on who the next monarch will be. Being a city of knights, the way to get an elector's vote is by beating the stuffing out of them.
Anyway, the biggest issue, for me, is 'can the reader read it to the end?' That is, is the chapter I posted interesting, or at least good enough that you can read it all the way to the end without having to force yourself? The first chapter isn't very actiony, nor is it too attention grabbing, the focus is on writing the narrator's words so that the narrator herself carries the story until the plot and characterization could keep the reader reading.
Edit: Wow, a thousand and five hundred words look a lot bigger here than on my word processor.
“A non-factor. Everyone knows the thirteenth is… token… nominal. A small concession made to the magicians for their assistance in winning the last war. His vote is irrelevant.”
“I do not gamble, friend Constantine. Not for money, not for a crown. Investigate him.”
“He’s a mere boy.”
“And I a mere man. You promised me information on the prince electors, should I make my bid for the crown. Provide it.”
“Yes sir.”
“In any case, we have time, do we not? With you as her chancellor, the queen is in good hands.”
“Sarcasm doesn’t suit you.”
“…”
“Sir?”
“Keep her safe, friend Constantine. Keep her happy, keep her informed. Make sure she knows exactly what it means to be queen of this fair city of ours. She must understand the privileges of rank, and the obligations of power. You have never fought a war, so you wouldn’t understand, but a war over the succession is the last thing I want.”
[This is a Line Break]
I became a knight for the cape, alright? Like a kid—-which I was back then, so don’t laugh, jerk—-I thought everyone got a nice, spiffy cape once they graduated. Finding out you actually had a pay a tailor if you wanted a fancy cape to go along with your uniform had been the worst shock of my life.
So I got a job at a bakery the summer I graduated, thinking I wouldn’t feel so bad about dumping a fortune on clothes if I earned it myself. The work was easy, the pay was okay, and the free food was nice—-not that I ate any, cake made you fat. But the plan didn’t work out, and I never did buy that cape.
Like everything, it was Morgan’s fault. It’s always Morgan’s fault. If I ended up naked, tied up, and glued to the ceiling of a palace somewhere, I wouldn’t know a blamed thing except it was the damned kid’s fault.
I don’t mean that in a bad way, Morgan’s the kind of nice, polite kid you’d love as a kid brother—-the kind of kid brother that didn’t actually exist. But he’s almost a prince, definitely a trouble magnet, and about as good as a rock at reading the mood. He started a war before he was fifteen, did you know that? It was a pretty small war, and nobody died except that mustache twirling advisor everyone hated, but I still ended up in the hospital for an entire month afterwards.
That’s a few years in the future, though, a long time after the summer I got my license. Back then, I didn’t know Morgan as anything except the magician looking kid who always showed up at the bakery twice a day. Once for breakfast, once for an afternoon snack.
There was a big flu scare that summer, so people mostly stayed home, wearing masks if they had to go outside.note Made it pretty boring to work at a bakery, that’s for sure, the only risk of excitement was the owner firing me because there wasn’t enough business. Then again, I hadn’t been expecting much. I mean, really, it’s a damn bakery. Morgan wasn’t my friend yet, so I didn’t know he attracted trouble like a bowl of honey attracted bears, okay?
Hearing the bell ring, I jumped up from behind the counter.
“Strawberry cupcake and honey milk tea?” I asked, waving cheerfully as Alicia walked up to the counter. She was a few years younger than I was, short for her age, and very cute, being one of those rare girls who could pull off curls despite perfectly raven hair. I was kind of the opposite, everyone told me it just looked ‘wrong’ if I tried perming my hair, even though it was a nice golden blond perfect for curls.
“Are you making fun of me?” Alicia narrowed her eyes. The look didn’t suit her, since she was so small and cuddly, a girl who should have loved sweets. “Small coffee, black.”
“Ah, sorry, sorry, mixed you up with that other Alicia. You know, the one that looks like you, talks like you, and probably tastes like you.” I grinned jokingly, of course there wasn’t a second Alicia. “Two and a half, please.”
Alicia must have had gotten used to me by then—-that, or she had a lot of experience dealing idiots. Without saying anything, but sighing more than a little, she took out her purse, carefully counting out ten copper quarters.
“Might want to drink this on the way home,” I said, handing Alicia her coffee. With everyone hiding in their houses, the streets were getting dangerous for a girl walking alone. I would’ve loved to walk her home, Alicia looked enough of a princess that I’d get points as a knight, but the bakery didn’t close till ten. There was no way I’d get her to stay that long.
She shot me one of those ‘what the heck is that hamster doing in your brain’ looks I often got, walking to an out of the way corner of the bakery to sip her coffee. Not surprising, since Alicia hated the cold. The only season it didn’t snow in Tara was the winter, and only because calling the winter blizzards ‘snow’ was like calling a killer whale a goldfish.
“I’ll have these, please,” said Morgan, setting a tray of cookies on the counter. I didn’t hear him come in, so he must’ve snuck in alongside Alicia. Stupid kid’s invisible when he wanted to be. “…Is something the matter?”
“Ah, no, nothing at all,” I said, giving a perfectly professional smile. Nope, definitely wasn’t surprised at all. “Chocolate chip today? Three and a sixteenth, please.”
Morgan blinked, looking befuddled for a moment. You could really tell he was foreign at times like this, he had to do some sums on a piece of paper before he worked out how to translate a sixteenth into decimals. Argent didn’t believe in quarters, eighths, or sixteenths, you see. It was all ones and fives and tens down there.
I clapped cheerfully when he gave me correct change, and Morgan shot me a glare. The effect was rather cute, especially with the pout.
“You shouldn’t get involved with him, you know?” said Alicia, once Morgan left.
I frowned, crossing my arms.
“…Liss?” I said her name as slowly and carefully as I could. I really didn’t like people who talked behind other’s backs. If you’re going to talk badly about someone, wasn’t it common sense to do when they can hear you?
“It’s just rumors, but you know he’s… um, he’s...” Alicia withered, backing very slightly away.
I didn’t say anything, still glaring at her. I liked her a lot, but that’s all the more reason to be angry. The whole point of liking someone was being particular about them, wasn’t it?
Alicia took a slow sip of her coffee to calm herself down, and, after a moment, matched my glare with a fierce look that didn’t suit her looks at all. Suited her personality perfectly, though.
“He’s a wizard.”
I blinked.
“No shit.” What else was Morgan going to be? The kid looked far too comfortable in his robes to be a knight.
“Don’t you know that’s bad news? Everyone tells me to stay away from him, my mom tells me to stay away from him, and she’s the nicest person I know.”
I tilted my head, trying to wrap my mind around ‘Morgan’ and ‘bad news’ in the same sentence. He’s just a kid, wasn’t he? Short, blue haired, and maybe a bit more frowny and quiet than a kid should be, but still a kid.
“He tortures squirrels for fun!” shouted Alicia, because I wasn’t getting the point.
“Okay. So what?” I lifted an eyebrow.
“…Lucca?” Alicia had a weird look on her face, like she never saw me before. She said my name in the same slow, careful way I said hers earlier.
“Look, Morgan isn’t the kind of kid who’d do something like that, alright? I can imagine him skinning a squirrel alive, but I can’t imagine him smiling gleefully about it.”
“You don’t know that.”
I shrugged. Knowing or not knowing didn’t matter, I believed it. Even if it’s false to the world, it’s true for me.
“Dummy…” Alicia pouted, looking away disdainfully. I’ll never tell her, but she looked really cute like that. Then, quieter, softer, “Who do you like more, him, or me?”
“Oh, now that’s a hard one,” I said, grinning. “On the one hand, a spunky princess with a heart of ice. On the other, a potential love interest with a mysterious, uh, present. Why can’t I have both?”
Alicia looked at me, radiating annoyance, then looked away sharply. Oh. She was actually serious.
“Hey, if you know him from somewhere, why not just tell me?” I asked. “This isn’t like you.”
Alicia stayed silent for a long time, finishing the rest of her coffee.
“Because I like you the most,” said Alicia, pushing open the door.
The door clicked shut, and I was alone in the bakery.
“…I’m a girl too, you know?”
edited 14th Dec '15 12:22:01 AM by DNC