The Constructive Criticism Thread

Morwhen, you aren't actually on the request list. If you'd like something critiqued you need to add your name to the list here https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Sandbox/ConCritThread and wait for your turn.

And LBH, thankyou very much for your critique! It was very helpful, and I'll keep your advice in mind when I edit it and try to smooth over the issues you pointed out.

Since the thread is moving so slowly I'll probably give the rest of my turn a miss. So unless anyone else has contributions I'll be sending out the alerts for the next turn tomorrow.

edited 4th Jan '14 3:30:51 AM by lockedbox

Alright, here goes. The Water Bearer (working title), prologue/chapter one/beginning.

My biggest concern is the writing style. I picked it for this scene for a reason, but I'd like to know if it's offputting, confusing, what it evokes, etc., which is important because this is the beginning. Of course, anything else you happen to notice would be nice, too. Thanks.

The only problem I'm having with the dialogue is that the lack of identifiers makes it hard to distinguish at first; skimming this scene, I thought it was silent. If you're going for a darker, more "realistic" feeling with that, it definitely works. Other than minor quibbles, I think you're going to risk putting off people with the tone, though. The beginning does arouse curiosity, but a pretty morbid variant of curiosity, and your audience's morbidness will only take them so far through the story. There will need to be some lighter spots, or the average moderately-idealistic person will just put it down a page or so in, feeling vaguely depressed- and the beginning seems to say, "you're in for a pretty dark ride, kiddo!"

Aside from issues of general worldview and optimism desired by different segments of the population in their fiction, though, it's just fine. Seriously, if you have a higher darkness-tolerance than I do, you're just fine.

Concerning the writing style, I wouldn’t say it’s confusing (for the most part, see below), but off-putting would be a good way to describe it. Aside from the first paragraph, the voice feels very distant from the character. The way his limbs are almost treated as separate entities, or the second-hand way he relates the words he speaks, for example, almost makes it read like an out-of-body experience, except he’s still inside his body, it that makes any sense. I get the impression he’s operating on auto-pilot. For me it creates an alienating, uncomfortable, lonely feeling.

Now, there were a few confusing moments that stood out to me. Firstly, in the second paragraph you mention a fence staring ‘back’ but never mention him staring at it in the first place so the reader has to realize that you’re implying that he has been staring at this fence in the first place. It’s not a huge leap, but it’s a bit awkward. Next, when he first meets Lily he fights the urge to snap at her, before becoming suffocated by an embrace. Now, because Lily returns the embrace I’m assuming that he is the one who is embracing her but the way the first sentence is written it makes it seem like she embraced him first, and her embrace is what cut off the urge to snap. Finally, the decision to include quotes around ‘murder’ in his last line was interesting, especially since you don’t use quotation marks in the rest of the piece. So the inclusion of them here makes me wonder if he’s qualified his actions in his mind in some way, or if they’re just there to emphasize the word.

Other then that I don’t have much else to say. I definitely got a sense of sadness from the writing. The tiny details you added (memories of playing with Gameboys, chasing friends in the yard) did a good job of drawing me into the story and making more sympathetic to the main character’s situation, more so than just a generic ‘oh woe is me I had to kill our offspring for reasons to be embellished upon later’

That’s it from me, unless you have further questions about things.

Out-of-body is exactly what I was aiming for, so that's good. With the embrace part, I was implying that he hugged her instead of snapping at her... I'll figure something out to make that clearer. And the quotation marks are a mistake; it's me being too used to TV Tropes markup. My original intention was italics, but now it's seeming like a bit too much emphasis, so I've cut them out.

With how things are currently working out, there are going to be happier, more pleasant parts than this, but it's still looking pretty melancholic overall. Which brings me to my next realization- I feel that I should have included something to clue readers in that this is a Science Fantasy, since the very premise rests upon speculative elements, one big one being how he killed the kids, and why that happened.

Both of you have already given me some good advice and stuff to think about; thank you.

edited 14th Jan '14 10:31:37 AM by CrystalGlacia

Edit: Sorry didn't read over the thread carefully

edited 31st Jan '14 9:25:09 PM by candle

Hi! Good to know you're enthusiastic, but a couple of things.

First, this thread is generally meant for people to critique one chapter, short story, or other 'short-ish' piece at a time. Not sure what the policy on flash fiction is. And, second, we have a waiting list that's linked in the OP of the thread. The contents of this first post have been placed in the handy yellow box at the top of each page of this thread. Add yourself to the end of the list; you'll get a PM when it's your turn.

On another note, this place has been dead for a few weeks. I'd like to get at least one more critique on my piece if someone has anything new to add before I start revising too much, but it's been so long I won't really complain if we move on.

edited 2nd Feb '14 2:29:58 PM by CrystalGlacia

Fair enough

I started realizing I erred as I looked over the thread.

Quick question is there a word limit to the short story?

Hrm... I don't think there's a hard and fast limit; there have been submissions on the order of 8-9k, which as far as I'm understanding is long for this thread.

This thread breathes! Finally; I was about certain it had died again.

So, who's next on the list.

I'm looking for a bit of criticism on a short story I wrote. I'm wondering if I can post it for feedback.

This thread has a built in critique waiting list that you are of course free to add yourself to (see the info box at the top). You should get a PM when its your turn, and in the meantime you can critique other stories. If you don't feel like waiting for this thread to get lively again, I'd suggest trying the writer/critic dating thread and seeing if it catches anyone's eye.

So yeah... this place has been dead for a while. We were actually moving at a nice clip for a while there. I assume things are just slow right now because its in the midst of the school season?

Almost certainly, Troper Demographics being what they are. Weren't we really going fast during the winter break?

On an unrelated note, if I'm signed up on the list already, is it ethical to change the project I have up for critique?

edited 13th Mar '14 10:53:59 AM by Kesar

I'd also like to join, if that's okay?

edited 5th Apr '14 12:34:02 AM by Webidolchiu94

Absolutely, just add yourself to the end of the list linked in the first post of this page. No need to ask first.

So a critique of Crystal Glacia's prologue to Water Bearer: As per the writing style, it feels...ethereal, for lack of a better word. Like the viewpoint character is present, but not entirely there, like he's under anesthesia, which is one way to portray the emotional trauma that he's undoubtedly experienced (see Wham Line). I'm thinking (in case you want to recreate this effect elsewhere)that this effect is primarily caused by the use present tense rather the ubiquitous past tense, although the writing as if his limbs are not part of him surely helps.

Negatives: I definitely agree with whomever said you should insert some dialogue marks. Quotation marks would be best in my opinion, but I've also seen brackets, angle brackets ("<, >"), and even italicization used to mark dialogue. Whatever works for you, but their should be some distinguishing between dialog and non-dialogue.

There were also a few bits that were confusing, most notably the second paragraph. It talks of the character's fingers "trying and failing" to undo the latch, and then "despite his attempts" they succeed. It took me a few read-throughs before I understood enough to proceed further. Your prologue is barely over a page, so please expand it to be clearer as to what's happening. After reading the whole thing I concluded that he had decided this meeting as his course of action and despite that, is dreading it and trying to delay it as long as possible, but this is by no means clear. Your prologue is barely over a page, so it is certainly possible to elongate certain sections to make them a little clearer.

Summery: "Please, ma'am, may I have some more?" I really liked it. I'd be worried it might be a little difficult to read it if it is longer than a short story and has this writing style consistently throughout, but other than that I felt it was well written, with an intriguing writing style, and what I felt was an excellent end with the Wham Line.

My intention with the lack of explicit dialogue tags was to add into that ethereal feel, as you call it. I have been in a lot of situations where people speak and it doesn't feel like words are coming out of their mouth (dreams being a big one), but you still know what they were talking about, as though they had simply disseminated concepts without speech. But I seem to be in a minority who knows this feeling, considering how often critiques have pointed this out. Is it really so confusing a convention to use for the duration of what is probably still going to be a rather short opening? This is supposed to open a novel-length (or close to it) story. I was intending on using a more conventional writing style for the rest, as this one is so odd, and maybe revisiting this style for one or two more scenes.

And maybe I should expand it a bit; it seems a bit short. I also need to get around to making it clear that this is a Science Fantasy, since the rest of the plot sort of hinges on fantastical elements.

Thank you, though.

So, are we moving on to the next work?

EDIT: Never mind, I didn't see the five pieces of feedback rule.

edited 23rd Apr '14 10:29:46 PM by Sharur

Edited by Chaoraiser360 on Sep 27th 2021 at 4:42:12 PM

Edited by Chaoraiser360 on Sep 27th 2021 at 4:42:22 PM

1. Read this.
2. You need to fix your formatting; you need a blank line between each paragraph.
3. Your grammar leaves much to be desired; it detracts from the rest of your piece enough that I really can't tell what's going on.

edited 16th May '14 12:34:54 PM by CrystalGlacia

Edited by Chaoraiser360 on Sep 27th 2021 at 4:42:31 PM

I wouldnt worry about the rules so much at this point- the thread is practically dead, no one going to complain because you jumped ahead of the line. However, you do need to format your submission correctly, and work on your spelling and grammar. The fastest way to do that is with a full featured word processor- microsoft word and open office both have spelling and grammar checkers included.

As for your writing sample, I think one way you could improve it is to introduce each character before they speak. Describe the setting, where are they, what does it look like, who is there, what do they look like? Take a paragraph or two and write some descriptions that answer those questions.

Then, when that is done, pick one character as your perspective character and follow that person around. Let them introduce each of the other characters by interacting with them for more than a single sentence, then move on to the next one. Use these interactions to build toward your main plot- what is going to be the central conflict or problem the drives the story?

And keep practicing, you only get better by writing all the time.

http://youtu.be/9P4Q19mdoqE

My first attempt on animation.

Warning: It contains no sound, minimal effort, and bad English.

This thread is really about writing. I think you might have better feedback in either the Western Animation or the New Media forums. Good luck.