The Constructive Criticism Thread

Did what I could, though as the last guy, most of what I would have said already was. Jewelleddragon and Betsy really did a number on it, and I mean that as praise to them.

...what have I done?

EDIT: I knew that's what you meant. I'm just saying, I sent a poor soul off on a mad quest to read I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream. Have fun.

edited 27th Feb '12 5:38:24 PM by KillerClowns

I meant I was going to read I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream :P

And I love you all. -dives into the dark shadows to continue editing-

The last battle's curtains will open on stage!

I am extremely curious about your story now, but unfortunately my computer goes into coma vigil on exposure to Google Docs. Would you be able to, say, forward me the text via PM...? If it's too much of a hassle, then I will refrain from commentary entirely this round. (In previous rounds I was not able to access a computer in the first place, so that's something else entirely...)

Also, Harlan Ellison is the man, in the non-authority/writer-of-great-merit sense.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

I'll PM it to you when I get home.

The last battle's curtains will open on stage!

I've finished the first chapter of a historical novel set in Africa circa 6500 BC. I would gladly PM its text to anyone interested.

My DeviantArt Domain My Tumblr

Do a critique of Snowy's piece or one of the next pieces and then put your name on this list.

I'm done. The deadline was today.

The last battle's curtains will open on stage!

As you probably saw, I sent you my opinions by PM. Not sure if I should copy them here...

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

You can if you want to, I guess.

Speaking of which, sorry for not remembering to reply .____.

Thank you, though.

The last battle's curtains will open on stage!

Can I just say congratulations that this thread totally actually works?

Meanwhile in Troper Critique Club, the last five posts are people linking to their stuff with no critique whatsoever.

Yeah, forcing people to actually follow the rules turned out surprisingly effective. An OP that isn't completely outdated helps, of course, but the main reason this works is because we're lazy assholes.

Speaking of the thread, we've long passed the 12-hour point, so should JHM's turn be starting?

I don't have anything yet that I can be sure that I want to put forward. If necessary, you can skip me and I can follow the next person. But if you're all interested, I could find something pretty quickly.

edited 1st Mar '12 3:35:05 PM by JHM

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

It looks like we may be close to exhausting the thread's immediate target audience; the waiting list consistently lingers at 2-3 people. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there, but no matter when and how that happens, we should all be proud of making this "totally work" while it did, and making each other's sucky writing suck a little bit less

I'd add myself there at the end of the line to be publicly roasted, but conveniently 1. Just now I'm doing a big re-outline that'll be followed by a big rewrite, and 2. Translating from Hebrew to English is exhausting. I guess if any of you want to get a taste of my writing, there are some mini-chunks at this post, but it's not enough to actually take up a turn in the thread or anything. I guess y'all can take a look in your free time and send your thoughts by PM. I may end up compiling whatever I get and posting it as a one-off bonus here for educational purposes.

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

I added myself, but then I realized that the piece I want critique on is for the contest and it would definitely break anonymity. If I decide on another, I'll critique the next piece or add myself again.

So should I post my piece, or what? (I'm really just doing this for fun and curiosity, so I'm happy to wait for JHM, if s/he prefers. But we also don't want this thread to lose momentum.)

edited 1st Mar '12 5:21:06 PM by jewelleddragon

Trust me when I say I have loads of stuff that I can contribute for critique; I just wanted top let 5 or so people get their turn before I applied again.

Added myself on the list. I was waiting for everyone else to get a critique first*

, but whatever. It's way too early for this thread to lose steam.

Wrong thread. :/

edited 2nd Mar '12 2:04:16 PM by chihuahua0

First, wrong thread.

Second, are you insane? Potatoes man! Potatoes. You should be grateful.

OK, you guys can have a look at my piece. Warning: Contains sex and religion, so if either offends you, don't read it. I'm putting my main points of critique in spoilers so people can read before looking at them.

First: I'm female. Anthony is male. How does he work as a first-person male protagonist?

Second: This is a character study, not a morality tale. Anthony has strong moral convictions, obviously, but this is not a treatise about why Anthony's morals are right, nor is it a cautionary tale about the dangers of premarital sex. This will be more apparent later in the story, but it shouldn't feel like a clobber here.

First of all, how important is the concept of masculinity to him? How much does it affect his line of thinking (ie, his opinion about women and how they should act)? But outside of the internal part of the narration, don't worry about how his gender affects his voice too much.

The concept isn't particularly important (and I generally don't concern myself with making sure my guys Sound Masculine), but I am referencing sex, and sex is going to be different from a male perspective.

I feel like this conversation is taking place in a hushed whisper

I had problems with Anthony's narration in the beginning. It's not so much that he's an unbelievable male protagonist, but that you can't seem to decide what his personality is and how he thinks as a result of it. Hint: People think the way they talk. It doesn't change whether it's a guy or a girl.

The dialogue is... okay. It's not the most sparkling exchange I've ever seen. Actually, it's really boring. It's too heavy on banal small talk and Clara comes off as one of those quirky girls in romantic comedies, only she's not actually quirky. And they keep talking about really boring things. I zoned out after she mentioned she was going to a job interview.

Then Anthony mentioned he had a fiancee. After never mentioning the fiancee in the beginning. Frankly, it looks completely insincere. He never once thought about whether it was suspect that he, a man who was engaged to be married, was going to a bar with a woman he had unresolved feelings for. He never even thought about his fiancee, which makes me wonder how they got engaged in the first place.

You mention her, what, once? And it certainly sounds like he has no qualms about taking someone who is not his fiancee home with him. Alone.

Regardless: The exchange in the bar is still believably that of a young man and a young woman.

Which makes the narration in the beginning stand out like an incredibly sore thumb. Ye gods! I have never, in my life, heard anyone of any gender, age, or level of intelligence use the phrase: "I briefly aspired to lose my virginity."

This wasn't a particularly good scene. You started out really rough, but you did establish a history and chemistry between the two characters. Then you flip-flopped and had a serviceable and believable dialogue exchange while losing any sort of chemistry whatsoever.

Then they had sex. Which wasn't believable at all. The fact that I was reading about two characters who were knowingly starting an affair meant that not only was I irritated, but it wasn't even a believable leadup to sex, as they hadn't had any apparent chemistry, the whole thing felt rushed, and he wasn't the slightest bit conflicted about cheating on his fiancee.

The ending was completely out of the blue. There was next to no context for the swear. I say this because you didn't mention anything to make it believable, such as 'Anthony swore because he felt terrible about cheating on his girlfriend but also still had feelings for Clara and thus his conflict manifested in a dirty word'. It sounded like he left his keys in the car, which further soured me to Anthony. Also, while douchebag isn't technically a swear word, I wonder why he would use douchebag so much and then show qualms about saying "Shit".

Alright, best I make myself quasi-useful and shit. Jewelleddragon, I'll take a look. EDIT: Delivered, sorry if I come off as a tad harsh and my own assumptions about a what a protagonist should be bleed through too much.

edited 2nd Mar '12 7:24:46 PM by KillerClowns