All-Purpose Nasuverse Fanfiction Thread

Hutts? Twilekks? Gems? Oh why not tge Chee and their makers?

Fate Grand Order players will know me as Ryusei-Go.

I would not want to impose earthlings on the poor Chee and Pemalites.

Although... Howlers, maybe? In light of the Chronicles books, Ax's early assertions that Andalites learn about humans in school seem a bit weird, but it's not that hard to figure out that something keeps Yeerks away from Earth. Maybe the Skirt Na ship gets blown up by the Andalites or something.

Strangely, right now the most prevalent species used in First Contact fics are... ponies. Still.

Tamaraneans, Thanagarians, any species that's contributed a member to the Legion of Superheroes or the Lanterns, Incubators...

I dunno, what kind of aliens are you looking for? Assholes? Nerds? Warriors? A culture too complex and varied to be boiled down to a single Hat?

edited 31st Jan '17 5:41:10 PM by rikalous

I'm ruling out anything from a comics continuity, because the unspoken assumption is the rest of the continuity comes along too. So that, for now, rules out all Marvel and DC. I also want someone who can, if not match magecraft, then at least have something that would be equally surprising to humans and as hard to counter, because I personally find Humanity Fuck Yeah stories annoying and make me want to secede from the species.

So far, this makes the TSAB the closest thing to a good match I can think of, or maybe the evil Knockoff of them from the Grand Toor series.

I'd love to use the Vord, but such a Bug War approach to the story takes away some of the fun of First Contact stories. At the very least, I'd like a few peaceful, wacky comparison chapters.

Eh, maybe I can go straight Voltron: Legendary Defender,set BEFORE the lions are found. The Galra have space magic, after all, that's powered by murdered planets. That's technically necromancy on a scale even Gilgamesh will shit himself over.

edited 31st Jan '17 5:55:30 PM by SCMof2814

You could always pick one of the aliens from the Mass Effect series. They're pretty cool. The Incubators are also a neat idea because it'd be interesting to see how they go about making their deals considering the existence of Thaumaturgy. Hell, I don't even think the magic presented in that series explicitly contradicts the rules of magic in the Nasuverse. Everything I can recall a Magical Girl doing in the anime and movies has a parallel in the Nasuverse.

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Incubators are actually hard to portray as an alien (in the sense of 'from outer space, with ships and stuff') species since they don't really seem to have a culture, only a function. We're told they're doing what they do to prevent heat death, okay, but WHY? If one goes by the show it's so that... they can keep on living to work to prevent heat death some more. EVERY conversation everntually loops back to "make a contract with me". They don't give the sense of being ''people' with their own hopes and dreams. They're a Turing conversation module hooked up to a vending machine. At least, that's my difficulty in using them for something like this.

Besides, in a certain fic I wrote I once equated the Incubators to Primate Murder (written before the Salomon Chapter reveal). As a Gaia-powered mechanism made to get humans to destroy themselves, it actually interprets quite well.

Also, I don't play Mass Effect. I've heard nice things about it though.

edited 31st Jan '17 9:09:16 PM by SCMof2814

Yeah, the Incubators are kinda hard to understand but that's the entire point. They're aliens. Expecting a species that hails from possibly a completely different galaxy to be anything like us is presumptuous. You'll note that Kyubey states that they have a pretty hard time understanding humans and only got to the point that they did through trial-and-error. It's the fact that they're so different from humans that makes them so interesting to me. Really, as much as I adore it, I hate the fact that ''The Rebellion Story' turned them from creatures operating under "needs of the many" that even the protagonists agree with to villainous asshats who absolutely needed to be stopped. Equating them to Primate Murder is just wrong.

Also, if you have to ask why someone would want to prevent the end of all life in the universe then I'm not sure what to say.

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Rebellion didn't really change anything about their characterization, or, heck, about the quintet's level of hostility towards them. Homura's still the only one who wants to shoot them in the face, with everyone else more concerned with saving her from herself.

On the heat death thing, to paraphrase Peter Quill they're some of the idiots living in the universe.

Any alien who shows up at Earth to make first contact has enough tech to do fine against magecraft, I'd say. Kiritsugu and strange fake both make the point that mundane modern weapons are more than enough to ruin your typical mage's day.

My incomprehesion is Doylian rather than Watsonian. In a Watsonian sense, I completely get them and why they're interesting, but in a Doylist sense I don't get enough of a sense of their motivations to write them for a First Contact story. And the motivations I do understand, I can't make a story with.

It actually works if you step back and look at the Witch/Puella Magi cycle as a means of exterminating humanity, since in a mechnical sense it's very good at it. Girl gets wish, very first generation of girls have no with to fight, squander power, lack grief seeds, die from magic exhaustion. They turn to witches and go around causing people to murder and suicide when they're not drawing them into their labyrinth to kill them directly, while creating familiars to kill more and mature into witches that are clones of them. Second generation of girls gets wishes and told to fight witches. Results would be: a lot killed through inexperience, and a few who survive through luck. Assuming they're told about Grief seeds, the expended energy might be greater than energy recovered, and killing the witch does not stop the familiars. Assume exponential rate of witch growth like a disease (witches make a LOT of familiars, like spores), and linear rate of PM growth due to recruitment practices, and humanity is more likely to die than survive. I know it doesn't happen this way in the series proper, but this is fanfic, and I don't even need to mess with the numbers for this to be a viable form of Gaia-sponsored eradication.

I'm not Moridin. I'm asking basically "Okay, they held back heat death. Now what?". The 'greater good' argument is a bit lacking because there wouldn't seem to be a 'greater good' from their perspective. They seem to be in a cycle of 'prolong life', 'use prolonged life to stave off heat death', 'repeat eternally'. It's not 'to preserve culture', it's not for any moral principle, it's strictly life-preservation. They're the cosmic equivalent of the slalaryman who goes to work to for basic ammenities and only basic amenities so that they can go to work, ad infinitum. And while someone might be able to write a story about us meeting aliens like that, it's not me.

It's less that I want to have them go against magecraft and more that I want to avert Humans Are Special. Any alien who shows up to make first contact has enough history to have their own equivalent of magecraft. Heck, given the advanced physics involved, what humans consider Sorcery would just be another magecraft.

edited 31st Jan '17 10:06:53 PM by SCMof2814

It didn't change anything but their actions made them move from True Neutral at worst to just flat out Neutral Evil.

It doesn't work that way. A Sorcery is something that cannot be replicated through magecraft. No matter how hard you work towards it, no matter how long you try, you can never achieve a Sorcery through magecraft. If you could, the Einsberns wouldn't have needed to resort to the Holy Grail in order to reacquire the Heaven's Feel.

Now, having the aliens being able to achieve Sorceries through technology is perfectly acceptable. Many things that were once considered Sorceries in the Age of Gods aren't considered such in modern times because of technology.

edited 31st Jan '17 10:11:48 PM by Zelenal

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Expecting a species that hails from possibly a completely different galaxy to have morality anything like ours is presumptuous. They just went from blue to orange.

Given the bizarrely semantic nature of magecraft, I'd disagree. Rin said that anything technology can do can be done with magecraft given the right time, money and/or materials. If you can create a technological time machine or dimensional portal, a magecraft would technically be possible. Although this all could purely be semantic.

edited 31st Jan '17 10:19:29 PM by SCMof2814

Throwing my words back at me. How clever.

I feel like I need to start using Wtsionian and Doylist tags since that complaint was directed at the creators rather than against the Incubators. In the anime, the Incubators are portrayed as an alien race that operates under a Hive Mind of pure logic trying to prevent the heat death of the universe. After scouring through many different possible answers, they finally manage to come up with a solution and then go about enacting that solution in the best way possible not just for themselves but also for humanity (note that Kyubey states that they used to explain everything to humans upfront but stopped when very few people were agreeing or when people were going crazy because of the whole soul thing).

In the movie, the Incubators hear about this old system and go "Huh. That sounds neat. Let's disregard this entire system we have now which is working perfectly fine in order to try and meddle with things beyond our comprehension and switch to this other system that seems worse for everyone just because we can."

I think you can see the reason for my disgruntlement.

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In general, PMMM humans are, if anything, less exterminated than we are. They have fancier buildings, more advanced curricula, and a wider variety of hair colors. The only thing that killed them off was Gretchen, and if you have to rely on the kind of bullshit anomaly that permits apotheosis, it'd probably be more efficient to just personally shank humanity one by one. In alphabetical order.

So you want space wizards. Yeah, all I got are comic book characters and the Nanoha and Sailor Moon guys that are indistinguishable from Earthlings.

Worse for everyone? But projections indicate that this "witch system" will increase the efficiency of anti-entropy activities by #%. Since the entire universe benefits from anti-entropy activities, it is manifestly better for everyone. Why, it would be positively criminal to maintain the current system despite the knowledge that a more effective one could be enacted. ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼

edited 31st Jan '17 10:34:59 PM by rikalous

I do and I agree with it. However, I'm okay with the action because it's totally in character for them to do such a thing. In a Watsoniant sense, of COURSE they'd try to be more efficient if they could. From what they say, they have no other purpose to exist but to function as agents to hold back heat death. They're not acting evil, they're just being Kyubey.

Yes, but that's in PMMM, where Incubators aren't actively working on a human genocide. I merely note that, given Witch propagation rates, they'd cause an extermination akin to a virgin field epidemic of a new disease if they are newly introduced into the modern world with no established infrastructure meant to destroy them.

I guess? It just seems absurd to assert that in an infinite universe with more than one sentient species that's not a Type eldritch abomination, humans are the only ones who'd work out magecraft.

edited 31st Jan '17 10:43:15 PM by SCMof2814

Did they actually state that the Witch System was more efficient? Maybe they did and I just don't remember. Still, the fact that I could read that in QB's voice is making me possibly rethink things.

Regardless, the fact that the Witch System could produce entities like Walpurgisnacht and Kriemhild Gretchen (even if the final version of that one is such an outlier that it's on a different chart) that could potentially wipe out their power supply isn't a smart idea. Even if it's only a city destroyer like Walpurgisnacht, that's still a lot of potential magical girls now dead and gone.

edited 31st Jan '17 10:41:49 PM by Zelenal

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It doesn't need to be more efficient. For all we know, the Homura thing was just a proof of concept experiment to quantitatively measure if it was more efficient, since the retcon would leave them with no data for comparison (scientific method!). Either way, it wouldn't change the storyline as it happened.

edited 31st Jan '17 10:47:42 PM by SCMof2814

A lot of the details with the QB system are left vague because the intricacies of alien optimization equations are really not at all what the story is about, but when there are two possible interpretations and one pisses you off I figure why not go with the other one?

For your second paragraph, as I recall Kyubey's reaction to Gretchen destroying the world was basically "fuck it, we got enough out of this thing that I am almost your human happy with it." It's perfectly possible for one destructive harvest of something to net you more resources than sustainably harvesting it across its lifetime, and while "all the energy from the magical girls yet to come" is a lot of juice, so is "power sufficient to edit the universe retroactively from the big bang."

So the reason why their attitude in general seems kinda assholish is not because they can't be less assholish, but because they've all this pent up stress to vent. Makes sense.

Rather than smart, I'd prefer to be wise. It would let me be silly more often.

Nah, I see them more as the guy who has no life outside of work and sees no reason to want to.

So I had this idea in mind.

It's F/SN. Say, True End. Everything is happy, sunshine and rainbows...

And then Saber is back at the beginning of Fourth War, with all her memories intact. How could the knowledge of both Fourth and Fifth War help in perhaps averting the clusterfuck of Zero? (or perhaps, making it worse?)

How do lizards fly?

Well, if she could convince Kerry (via Iri) of the Grail's corruption long before the endgame, and that simply destroying the Lesser Grail will do nothing but burn the entire city to the ground while the Grail prepares to manifest yet again in ten years instead of the usual five-to-six decades, and that Kirei must die without a chance for resurrection via Grail mud... Well, that would be a good start. At the very least, even if the FZ events more or less end with little difference from canon, Kerry would tweak the timing of his plan to destroy the leylines to account for the time discrepancy.

Unfortunately, Saber would have no idea of Sakura's suffering under Zouken, so one could only hope that Team Kerry would discover that on their own ^note perhaps in the course of trying to recruit other Masters, they basically leave a message for Berserker and his mysterious Master, and Kariya for some reason decides that his chances of saving Sakura from Zouken would be better if he allied with another Master against him. And even if she tells Kerry about how much of a threat Gilgamesh becomes in the future, killing Tokiomi wouldn't affect him much since he has Independent Action and can just contract with someone else.

edited 2nd Feb '17 4:56:00 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Well, there are only two True Ends in F/SN according to the flowchart: One in UBW and one in Heaven's Feel. So you'd have to pick which one you want to follow.

If you want to create some sort of Golden End where everyone's alive and happy, well, I'm not entirely sure that's possible without someone who posses story breaking powers.

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Hollow Ataraxia is technically a Golden Ending on itself.

It also doesn't make a lot of sense.

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Sure it does. Rin messes around with Zelretch's Jewel Sword (which implements the Second Magic) and accidentally merges multiple timelines together, possibly including ones that aren't represented by the canon routes of FSN (which would account for the survival of Servants who always die by the end of the Fifth Holy Grail War no matter which route you pick, e.g. Gilgamesh). Poor Shirou complains of how his memories of said conflict are often irreconcilable with each other (Rider's survival means Heaven's Feel is true, but him being nonplatonically close to Saber and Rin instead supports the Fate and UBW routes, in which Rider always dies).

edited 2nd Feb '17 10:46:50 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.