Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.
Here's a courtesy link: TRS page
. And Badass page with its subtropes. You can also visit the sandbox page here.
Noted Problems include:
- Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
- Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
- Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.
Suggested things to do include:
- Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
- Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
- Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.
There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.
Edited by Berrenta on May 15th 2020 at 7:39:14 AM
Awesome moments, or since so many characters, and an entire class of people fit, you could put it under World of Badass
The Unknown
I've just been killing wicks since, 9 times out of 10, one of the subtropes or a relevant replacement is already listed.
edited 14th Apr '16 10:13:12 PM by Karxrida
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
the vast majority i've seen so far are either ZCE's or basically 'can be seen as a good fighter' which yeah are redundant with all the other tropes listed.
Especially a problem in video games where as a player if you're good at a realtime game or level grind in a turn based game all playable characters can be 'badass'
edited 15th Apr '16 12:12:37 AM by acrobox
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Yeah. I'm seeing ZCEs like "All of the main characters and all the villians," which is a fantastic summary of the exact reason why we killed its classification as a trope in the first place: lacking a proper, consistent definition, any character who ever has a Moment of Awesome at any point in the work qualifies.
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
I've started removing Badass where I see it. I agree with the above based on what I've seen. The cases where there isn't another trope are basically "this character is amazing!" "
The Unknown Unknown
I got another question. Since Badass is now Fan Speak, does that mean deconstructions or parodies of Badass are now obsolete?
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
I'm wondering if we should have some sort of Fan Speak banner on the Badass article about it not being considered a trope anymore. New examples still get added, which only adds to what already seems like the most exhaustive clean-up project on this site given the sheer number of wicks.
edited 9th May '16 12:39:33 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
The Wanderer
That would probably be a good idea.
Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.
The Unknown Unknown
Yeah, agreed.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Hi
Sounds like a good idea.
~Chaotic Novelist, I've backed out your edits on Badass per a complaint on Ask The Tropers. The subtropes do not require "badass" to be in the title.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Alright, if it's a new banner that will probably require a tech request.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Septimus Heap, I'm sorry for jumping the gun. I assumed that to be part of cleaning up the page. I removed those tropes because they made the page look more like a "fighter index" than a description about the term "badass". Is there a reason why all the non-badass name tropes should stay?
I think the issue is simply that you took an action that we hadn't really discussed yet, but you'll have to wait for Word of Mod on that.
Personally, I think the trope list should go. With the redefinition of Badass as a Fan Speak term, it actually has even less of a reason for existing than a list of Mary Sue tropes. Because there was never a clear usage for Badass, it's basically a list of things tropers think is cool.
I did some preliminary sorting on this Badass Categories sandbox a while ago. I think we should further discuss it and then have another crowner.
edited 17th May '16 8:00:27 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
I would just move the current badass description to badass categories, or make it the analysis page.
Then rewrite the main Badass page as something fairly limited that just explains that because the definition is broad it's best to use it as fanspeak and its not a trope on its own.
The Unknown Unknown
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Upon re-reading the page, putting all the definitions in an Analysis page sounds great. It basically sounds like one anyway.
I approve of Badass Categories. Best put the list about a broadly-defined Fan Speak term into an index and call it a day.
Keeping a trope list on the Badass page usually makes the average uniformed troper more inclined to keep troping Badass in some way, shape, or form. It's best to make this as clear as possible: "This is Fan Speak. Do not trope."
edited 17th May '16 9:46:52 AM by erazor0707
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
I second that suggestion. It will do more to discourage troping badass but also ruffle fewer feathers than what I did.
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Can't argue with that logic.
Then, should we add the "Do not link to this page" disclaimer?
Okay, so have another crowner with these options?
- Move the trope list on Badass to a seperate index, sort it out further from there.
- Cut the trope list on Badass entirely.
- Add a disclaimer to the top of the page, keep the current definitions on the page.
- Move the definitions of Badass to the analysis subpage, strip the Main/ page down to a page simply clarifying that it's a Fan Speak term that shouldn't be troped.
edited 20th May '16 1:18:42 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
The Unknown Unknown
Sounds about it.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
I like it. It covers everything.
Alright, I made another crowner so we can decide on those options: link.
edited 22nd May '16 3:36:01 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Honestly, stuff like that is gushy enough that it could just be moved under Awesome Moments (although I'd be surprised if it's not already there).