The Dreamstone

Made extra post for different subject matter and to avoid long text.

Adding to the comparison, some have also compared the Urpneys to Team Rocket. Being they're a usually pitiful Terrible Trio who follow a sinister, usually inactive boss and try to steal from a far more powerful hero squad.

The difference is that Team Rocket, while having a very sympathetic disposition and background at times, still love to be evil. They follow the stubborn, delusional villain format that the Urpneys are pretty much an antithesis for. There's a recurring formula they are talented enough to quit their job anytime if they didn't insist villainy was their calling (Ash even tries to help them sometimes, given how often it leads to a double cross you kinda empathise with his contempt for them). Plus at the end of the day, their stealing is far more evil in context, they're always trying to kidnap Pokemon to work for their organisation, essentially a child friendly version of animal trafficking and labour.

Even at that, the writers seemed to get the point that Team Rocket were getting too pitiful, having more moments they were genuinely fearsome or got Thrown The Bone when they weren't being assholes. At the very least they can simmer down their pathos and let you feel sorry for their enemies sometimes.

edited 13th Apr '16 7:24:06 PM by Psi001

Really? I always compared them to those guys from Yatterman - The Doronbo Gang, or whatever their names were.

I heard Team Rocket was based on previous anime cases such as those, so probably. Still more people would likely know Team Rocket to help with this comparison.

edited 14th Apr '16 6:37:48 AM by Psi001

I just realized why OP is so fast in replying.

The spirit of Rainbow Dash was summoned.

Y'know I said that I compare the Urpney trio to that gang from Yatterman? Just this afternoon, I had this amusing image of a version of Yatterman Night focusing on descendants of the trio, with Rufus and Amberley as the new Yattermen.

Silly, huh? I mean, that sort of thing MIGHT work with the original Yatterman, but the new series?

edited 14th Apr '16 3:15:57 PM by fruitstripegum

I probably should check out the Time Bokan show, I heard it provided a lot of inspiration and parodies for other anime in the long run.

Truthfully I think the lop-sided hero/villain rivalries are overrated anyway, especially in action series like The Dreamstone which try to have their cake and eat it too and still play it off likes there's some real tension (that atmospheric soundtrack is gorgeous, but hilariously unfitting most of the time). Not to mention it tends to get abused, this show demonstrates how often such cartoons tend to prioritise the punishment over the crime and make the hero look more like a glorified little playground bully. You can't really take to a hero that's never, ever, ever challenged (and thus never really forced into self defence).

I kinda feel like the show would have worked better and more uniquely if the Urpneys, in all their impersonal and clownish qualities, were still kinda dangerous and forced the heroes to fight back. It's not like it couldn't still be very comical in that form (that's pretty much Marvin the Martian's concept for example).

edited 15th Apr '16 5:15:33 AM by Psi001

Maybe so, but even then there'd be the risk of making the Urpneys into the next Gargamel or Skeletor. Like I said previously, just because Gargamel HAD sympathetic qualities, it didn't mean that you'd want him to actually eat the Smurfs/turn them to gold/whatever his motivations were (I don't think they ever made that clear).

edited 15th Apr '16 9:45:24 AM by fruitstripegum

Most villains with sympathetic motives are wrote as more competent or dangerous (if not necessarily evil or vicious in method) as a reminder to the audience that the heroes are being forced to stop them. There's no chance of reasoning or compromising with them or they die, Violence is the Only Option.

Most Harmless Villains meanwhile, while having sympathetic qualities, are merely arrogant bullies who could quit at any time if not for their spiteful hatred or stubborn zeal. Not to mention most of the time the hero is a laid back trickster who merely reverses all their schemes back onto them.

The Dreamstone was a bad mix of formats. The Urpneys had both the dark sympathetic motive and the comical uselessness, while the heroes had both the serious actionized aggression and super powers and the comically lame provocation. It required the heroes to be the unreasonable ones who went out of their way to brutalise the villains for some really petty slight, with the Urpneys' excuse and their begging and cowering just being this elephant in the room they totally ignored because the plot would completely fall apart at the seams if they didn't.

It was kinda akin to the Marvel Avengers going full power on Wile E Coyote because Loki threatened him into using his faulty traps and painted tunnels on them.

edited 2nd May '16 8:49:42 AM by Psi001

I agree completely with your observations.

Yet, I disagree on the show being poorly done. My point of view is several degrees away from yours.

The show isn't bad at all, it's just very flawed in execution. You can tell they couldn't really be bothered handling much outside of the Urpneys, though fortunately they make a very large appeal of the show.

For the large part, that's what makes it so damn frustrating. A decent but very rough around the edges project that could have been brilliant.

edited 30th Apr '16 5:31:39 PM by Psi001

Am I the only one who sees the Urpneys and is reminded of Texas Pete, Bulk and Skeleton?

Yes, they're both Terrible Trios, but they have more in common with each other than that - Bulk and Nug are kinda dumb, Skeleton and Frizz are both neurotic Loveable Cowards, and Pete and Blob are the most threatening members of the trios.

Anyone agree with me?

Wasn't Skeleton also voiced by the same actor as Frizz?

Yes indeedy, he was. Melvin Hayes, of It Ain't Half Hot, Mum fame.

I wonder if he'll be voiced by Hayes again in the Superted reboot?

edited 17th Apr '16 12:13:47 PM by fruitstripegum

I'm not sure, from what I know Hayes is now in his 80s, but still has a somewhat active career.

That said, reboots such as Dangermouse usually recast everyone.

Trivia moment: Mike Jupp stated he specifically wanted to avoid a celebrity cast during the making of the show, wanting the voices to be unique, likely the reason the show consisted more of professional voice overs or otherwise unknown actors aside from Hayes and a couple others.

edited 30th Apr '16 5:36:41 PM by Psi001

Right, they only used famous voices on the songs on the album, didn't they? But I probably wouldn't recognize them as an American anyway.

They were going to use a young Christian Bale for Rufus, but decided for an older voice. He was used for The Dreamthief promo however.

Allegedly they had several different Doctors planned for audition for the role of Zordrak as well. (Jupp once stated his ideal choice would have been Jim Cummings).

Both roles were taken by fairly low key actors in the final show (though Gary Martin does a lot of voice work for British commercials such as the Honey Monster).

Concerning the soundtrack, the whole thing was done by Mike Batt, a musician known for writing and singing soundtrack for film and television such as Watership Down and The Wombles. Frank Bruno, Billy Connolly, and Ozzy Osbourne sang the OST version of the Urpney theme (their rendition was used only in "Megattack", Mike Batt sung any other vocalised versions). Bonnie Tyler also provided an unused track in the OST, "Into The Sunset".

edited 1st May '16 1:32:59 PM by Psi001

I know that the show sounds very british. Which is probably why nobody bothered bringing it here (that is, if my "here" is the same as your "here").

U! S! A!

I'm from the UK. Granted even here the show is rather obscure and forgotten, even in our retro craze. One of the reasons the show isn't getting much of a push for a rerelease is because it's so unexposed. Even when it was airing there was barely any merchandise or promotion over it (par a very short lived comic book that was mostly just adaptations of episodes).

I heard there were plans to export the show to the US and such, but they fell short. Something happened that I suppose shut down the deal.

Seems odd, it was seemingly popular enough to last four seasons.

edited 2nd May '16 8:28:33 AM by Psi001

That's what been puzzling me as well. If it was renewed for 2 seasons, it had to be known for at least a short while.

I guess the power of promotion and distribution is crucial. People cannot like something they don't know about.

Thankfully I made a thread on... another website. Seems the people who replied already know about the show. Weird.

They didn't mention it was because some pretentious windbag won't stop ranting about the show and it's flaws on other boards, did they? If so I might know how that happened...

I suppose some things can be popular without commercialism. Calvin And Hobbes kinda needed to be, for example.

edited 2nd May '16 12:44:49 PM by Psi001

Not sure what you mean by that, or by "other boards".

Depends what your 'other website' was and what members go onto it. :P

edited 3rd May '16 7:12:48 AM by Psi001

On that website a bunch of people replied with positive memories. Nobody complained.

Well I mean more bad memories of the pretentious critic who wouldn't stop whining about a children's cartoon, not the cartoon itself.

I'm almost certain I've got on plenty people's nerves with my ranting, and hardly just about The Dreamstone.

edited 3rd May '16 3:11:45 PM by Psi001

Y'know, I've been thinking - considering how similar the Urpneys and Sleazians are, what would happen if they switched shows? Would the Sleazians have more success at stealing the Dreamstone, and would the Urpneys be better at stealing the magic bucket?