Ongoing European Debt Crisis

Oddly, an FT tax would be something I'd highly support as it would act to curb all this rampant speculation.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Well, Schäuble (the German Minister of Finances) is pushing majorly for it, and Merkel and Sarkozy are supportive of the plan. It's Cameron who is the main obstacle, fearing for "the city", i.e. the London exchange robber barons. That, and of course classical Tory skepticism against European initiatives in general, which I can actually understand very well. Still, it's annoying as such a tax would be such a big step forward...

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Yeah — I'd vote for the tax... oh, darn: not being given the option.

...and guess where a large proportion (about 40%+, I think) of our Tax Revenue comes from?

edited 3rd Apr '12 9:18:44 AM by Greenmantle

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At the expense of other countries, basically.

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It has always been thus, especially since the 15th Century. London is a Merchant City after all.

edited 3rd Apr '12 9:21:28 AM by Greenmantle

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To be fair Octo, Germany has its manufacturing base. Well Britain has its banks. What else are we supposed to do?

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

There is nothing wrong with banking. There is something very wrong with unregulated banking sapping off capital from other countries because it caters to the financial elites at the expense of the common people. Now, granted that description is unfortunately true for most states these days, and it's not quite as bad as with Switzerland, say, but still "the City" is a glaring example in this respect.

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Octo, a European wide Tobin tax is going to hurt Europe because the Financial Services are going to move to Wall Street or Hong Kong. Now a global wide Tobin tax is different but there will never be one ever.

Dutch Lesbian

But they can only leave so far. After all, in itself banking should be nothing more than organizing the financial aspects of the real economy, which would still be there, and which still would organize itself financially in some fashion. The banks could not afford to lose Europe as customers, simply. Now, what would go is speculation and false money that is merely the illusion of a bubble. Good riddance to that.

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Let the banks run to Hong Kong, they know that China is going to pop like milk on a bowl of Rice Krispies and so does everyone else. Financial transaction taxes need to be put in place. Speculative gambling is out of control.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

...and then they'll keep on running to somewhere that doesn't have the regulations. So basically, if you want one, you'll need every single country, region and area in the world with their own financial self-Government to agree to that tax. Simple as that.

And by the way, wouldn't recording every single financial transation not be good for Civil Liberties?

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Well, there is a point to be made that you can only have such a tax with enough financial protectionism in place, but that would be a good idea anyway. So that if the financial sector goes anywhere else, it would lose Europe as customer. So only the financial speculation industry would go. And nothing of value would be lost.

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That's a great way to put it.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

They don't get to play trading games with the currencies of the countries that have an FTT.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

In other words, third-world countries? Is that a good idea?

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Wait, what now? Being prey to financial sharks is a requirement to being a first world country now? News to me.

Also, I find it slightly repelling how people in this thread (the Brits, to be specific) repeat all the damn neoliberal asskissing of the rich the politicians do. And people blast the German governemnt for a neoliberal course... Giving incentives to the financial locusts only leads to an arms race. We shouldn't use the carrot, we should use the stick! They want to do capital flight, well, make it impossible for them to do business here, make them lose us as customers!

edited 3rd Apr '12 3:54:16 PM by Octo

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Ahem, Nuke 'em?

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What? Do you also have anything else to offer but hyperbole and oneline answers that barely have anything to do with what you reply to?

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

I'm sorry I honestly don't get how that sentence follows from my post in any way.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

You mean a cycle of speculative bubbles is a good thing we should try to encourage, then? That boom and bust as people basically bet on which financial block will give them a little more in a mass transaction is a perfectly fine way to run business, when actual manufacturing suffers? That those who have enough ability to make the numbers dance aren't also the ones who manage to pay exactly one currency unit in actual tax, because they know the loopholes of systems they abuse?

All that is fine, dandy and a strong backbone on which to build an economy? Excuse me, but I beg to differ.

I find myself agreeing with Octo, even though all my cynical instincts are screaming at me not to.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

* Sigh *

I think I'll take a break from OTC for a week or two, maybe longer.

Keep Rolling On

Protesters have clashed with riot police in the Greek capital, Athens, hours after a pensioner shot himself dead outside parliament.

In his suicide note, he accused the Greek government of reducing the pension he got to "nothing".

Also he said:

From the BBC reporter in Athens:

Spanish borrowing costs jumped at bond auctions on Wednesday, spreading fear in European markets of a return of the euro zone debt crisis and overshadowing a successful step back into debt markets by neighbouring Portugal.

So it seems that the crisis is easing in Portugal but getting worse in Spain which sucks because the debt crisis in Spain wasn't a government living beyond its means but the Spanish people were.

The number of foreigners in Germany rose at the fastest pace in 15 years in 2011, data showed on Wednesday, with thousands from debt-stricken euro zone countries moving to Europe's largest economy in the search for work.

And Germany continues to benefit from being a strong economy in a weak currency

edited 5th Apr '12 6:15:13 AM by whaleofyournightmare

Dutch Lesbian

Germany's economic strength depends significantly on exports to other EU nations. If they collapse, so do Germany's markets, and therefore, so does Germany. There seems to be a kind of wilful Genre Blindness at work here.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"