Tyrannicidal Maniac
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In the absence of a persuasive argument, usually.
Social pressure only exists because of the collective beliefs of those exerting it. I'm not sure why you think that limiting social pressures is really any different from ostracizing certain behavior in the first place.
Did I say that it is different?
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
Well, were you describing a distinction between behavior you are and are not comfortable with?
(shrugs) All I wanted to say is that insisting that "These guys should not do it because of race" kind of defeats the purpose of racial equality, and that shaming people for exercising their right is somewhat disingenuous
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
Right of course. You don't shame them for exercising their right. You shame them for making idiotic decisions :P
That really has nothing to do with race, though.
Again, "idiotic" I can understand, although even this is constable. Not immoral, though
edited 18th Oct '11 9:52:17 PM by Beholderess
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
I think this is the best way to go about it. Agreed.
edited 18th Oct '11 10:03:52 PM by sketch162000
I think it's immoral to willfully doom one's own people-or, really, any people. But only in that it must be measured against the next best option morally speaking.
Well, let's not derail into an anti/pro abortion thread.
The bottom line is that, there are arguments for and against any course of action. One side has the Less Wrong position, but it may be difficult to determine which side that is.
Tomu@So it all comes down to as long as I think its right.
Sure. And if you're an enlightened human being, you'll do what you think is right based on sound logic and accurate information.
scratching at .8, just hopin'
{offtopic content deleted —Madrugada}
Anyways, I wonder about equivalent stigmas among communities that are not as economically disadvantaged as other minorities (I've heard "CBC" and "Banana" among the Asian communities up here) or minorities with arguably legitimate historical grudges against the majority (with the most hurtful example, I'd think, being "Apple Indians").
edited 19th Oct '11 10:22:51 AM by Madrugada
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
I (an American) have never heard of the term banana except on that episode of King Of The Hill when the Laotians were complaining about Khan being white on the inside and Laotian/Asian on the outside. Sounds like the Asian equivalent of Oreo? It was a Boomerang Bigot epispde.
edited 19th Oct '11 9:09:26 AM by secretist
TU NE CEDE MALIS CLASS OF 1971
Three-Puppet Saluter
Historical grudges are never legitimate. Grudges are only legitimate against the living entity that did something to you, personally. If the Chinese can rise above their treatment in the Old West, then there's no reason blacks can't do the same for slavery, but that they are encouraged to stew.
(Indian reservations, on the other hand, are legitimately, institutionally holding a race back.)
edited 19th Oct '11 9:54:46 AM by DomaDoma
Hail Martin Septim!
scratching at .8, just hopin'
I have balls.
You know, I actually liked Uncle Tom, as he was equally kind to everyone regardless of their race or how they treated him. He wasn't so much as a complacent traitor who accepted his fate as much as someone who sacrificed himself repeatedly for the sake of others.
In any case, he wasn't a "race traitor." Tom's final owner, Legree, actually thrived on turning his slaves against each other by giving a pair of them the role of slave driver over their own kin. Tom refused this role when it was offered to him and was whipped to death because he wouldn't reveal the location of two other escapees. I fail to see how that makes anyone a collaborator with the oppressors.
On the subject of the present, I find that applying the term "Uncle Tom" to today's society is insulting toward those who actually lived during the era of slavery, as what racism exists today is something entirely different from the institution that existed at the time of Harriet B. Stowe.
edited 19th Oct '11 10:12:21 AM by Vellup
They never travel alone.
Three-Puppet Saluter
Legitimate as in genuine, not as in justified.
Obviously.
Hail Martin Septim!
Needs to be more Evil
"Uncle Tom" used as an insult is one of those terms that makes my blood boil a bit, especially when used by a white liberal (which I've heard, about Colin Powell). I consider it as morally equivalent to "uppity" - "how dare those darkies think for themselves - who do they think they are?".
The best strategy for blacks would be to be a swing voting bloc, so politicians of both sides court them; being so married to one side that there's an epithet for those on the wrong side is a sure way of being ignored by everybody.
Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.
Social pressure is the means of regulating behaviour, is it not?
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common