How valid is the friendzone stereotype?

This thread brought the question to mind; I'm assuming the stereotype is generally that males are much more prone to wanting to be "more than friends" with female friends than females are with male friends.

And personally, I agree with it.

Looking at many discussions of the subject of the "friend zone," it seems to be a primarily male complaint. For comparison, complaints about friends wanting to be more than friends seem to be primarily female complaints. Once in a while I may see a girl complain that a guy wasn't willing to be more than friends with her, etc... but this seems much rarer than the usual... gender-directionality? I'm not sure how to put it...

It's generally the result of a one-sided attraction.

The "stereotype" is perfectly valid.

I think since girls have a lot of attention showered on them, that doesn't really happen the other way around (since men traditionally ask women out and all, and how often do you see girls hitting on random passersby in public) it's nice to be able to have a platonic relationship without having *that* come up all the time. Or at least I assume that's the reasoning for most girls to put you in the friend zone.

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The question then becomes what you would attribute the things you mentioned to.

And every time a girl complains that all her guy friends just want to get in her pants, it's like this utterly alien concept to me to get that much male attention. Or, like, any attention at all.

(Although my girl complains how she gets hit on by guys all the time, and it's like, and you think I'm hot stuff... why?)

I'm sort of with Jeysie here, with the proviso that the whole "friendzone" deal isn't necessarily a conscious thing that women or girls do.

In my case, if I guy says he wants to be friends with me, I am going to take him on his word for that and assume he means exactly that: he wants to be friends, with no romantic interest at all. Unless they make themselves incredibly, blatantly obvious, I just won't pick up on anything. (As in, I have had two male friends so far that I literally had no idea were romantically interested in me until they kissed me.)

I may just be bad at picking up signals, mind. But most of the complaints I have seen about being friendzoned seem to come from guys who haven't exactly made their romantic inclinations clear to the girls in question. Which implies to me that most of the time, these women have genuinely no idea the men want a Relationship Upgrade.

And if you go by Taylor Swift songs, it's not a guy only thing.

To be fair, I think a lot of that is because guys (myself included) are terrified of asking and figure a friendship seems much safer and unlikely to fail within seconds of the attempt.

edited 17th Oct '11 7:39:50 AM by Midgetsnowman

I've always asked out any of my friends that I've fallen in love with, and when I've had it not work, the friendship still survived the matter.

So long as you're one, not creepy in how you ask, two, have a mature response if you get rejected, and three, accept that you're going to have to fall out of love and back down to just friendship with the person if you are rejected, it's definitely doable.

And heck, sometimes it does work. My girlfriend is the one friend I've asked out who actually did love me back.

edited 17th Oct '11 7:45:24 AM by Jeysie

Conversely, from what I've seen, the complaints of being friend-zoned come after the...er..."victim" confesses his/her love and gets rejected. So it's not always so much that the girl never knows, it's just that when she discovers the attraction, she opts to keep the relationship platonic...wow, just saying that gave me a new realization of the douchebaggery of getting pissed with a girl because she doesn't want to give you a Relationship Upgrade.

Then again, Taylor Swift does a good job of articulating the feeling of frustration that comes with "Y U NO SEE I"M PERFECT 4 U???"

edited 17th Oct '11 8:04:35 AM by sketch162000

Heh, well, I admit I can sympathize with some of the standard complaints.

It is frustrating when someone you get along absolutely wonderfully with and are emotionally close to as a friend nevertheless doesn't want to be in a relationship with you. It is frustrating when that person dates a bunch of creeps or chases after women not interested in them, then moans to you about how they can't get a good girlfriend.

It's hard not to feel after a while an attitude of, "So, uh, what am I, chopped liver? Do I not qualify as a girl, or something? Hello?"

I don't know, man. I had a guy friend ask if I wanted to have sex in my dorm simply because my roommate was out. I had to tell him that in my mind, there are three file cabinets. One is for "Friends Only," one is for "Friends who I might be interested as more than Friends," and "Love Interest," and that he was in the first. Although he was a friend, he was too damn annoying to be anything more, and I wasn't physically attracted to him. Then he got pissed off at a mutual male friend of ours for asking me out to coffee (which is apparently code word for sex) and I had to explain to he that I'm not something that he could claim.

The way I see it, some dudes are so desperate to to get laid that they look to the closest vagina in the vicinity whose owner doesn't completely hate them.

For guys, there are situations where they may like a girl as a friend or just as a casual acquaintance, but not be interested in her. Generally those are girls that have a "good personality".

Remember that guys are taught that you behave differently to a girl you're interested in. Be a gentleman, hold the door for her, don't tell dirty jokes, put your best foot forward, don't argue about stupid things. It can get really exhausting to put up that act all the time. Female "friends" are ones that we can actually relax and be ourselves around because we feel like we don't have to impress them. We can talk about our stupid hobbies, or bitch about our annoying coworkers, and don't have to worry that she'll get turned off.

So in short, if you're interested in her you have to put up an act. If you're not, you can be yourself. Yeah, dating is weird like that.

That's it. Wow, I don't think I ever really thought about it that way before.

Which, depending on the actual girl in question, can backfire, especially if she's gotten used to the easy friend kind of relationship and the guy tries to be more 'gentlemanly' to show his affection - she might just have an averse reaction to his actually seeming less friendly to her than before. Obviously this is just hearsay and anecdote, but I know I'd much rather have my boyfriend treat me like his closest friend in moments we're not being lovey-dovey and have all sorts of silly conversations and joke around, than treat me like someone that constantly needs taking care of and sheltering and pampering or I'll either leave him or get seriously harmed. I wouldn't want to put on an act all the time with my boyfriend, why would I want my boyfriend to do so with me? If I truly love them, I would want to see the real person they are and not have them uncomfortable.

edited 17th Oct '11 11:40:52 AM by TheGirlWithPointyEars

Yep. There's a very good reason that Can't Act Perverted Toward a Love Interest is a trope. See, guys will be nice and gentlemanly to you to get you interested in us, then once you're hooked we can start to show you our real sides. It shows that we think you're special, and should be treated special. After all, we can't let you know that we're just as disgusting and horny as every other guy out there. Our feelings are pure, unsullied, and I think I'm going to barf.

Ladies, you know that guys like beer, and porn, and farting, and scratching ourselves, and swearing, and violent video games and movies, and putting our junk into you. We know that you know that. But you also hate those things about us, so we try to hide them if we're interested in you.

Our female friends know this, and we know they know this, but we don't care that they do.

So back to the women, just ask yourselves; how many times have you dated a guy who started out as a friend, and acted like a friend? I'd be willing to wager that the answer is, "Rarely to never".

edited 17th Oct '11 11:47:19 AM by Lawyerdude

That seems . . . aggressively stereotypical. I don't have statistics for how many women like beer or violent movies, but 1/3 of women who like porn like the sort of hardcore porn that's typically popular with guys, and I assume all women fart. (And of course, we as a species would be much, much better off if we admitted that most women like sex.)

edited 17th Oct '11 12:04:00 PM by feotakahari

amusingly I'm at the other end of the spectrum in why I dont ask. Its because, unlike taylor swift, the vast majority of my mind insists I'm definitely not the perfect man for anyone.

also, I dont like beer. and wehile I like violent videogames, usually not the common frat boy ones.

edited 17th Oct '11 12:15:53 PM by Midgetsnowman

Oh, it is.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say, "We believe you hate those things about us."

And yes, the world would probably be better off if we could admit that plenty of women like sex. The world would be better off if people were more open and honest with each other in general.

If girls are frustrated at guys' behavior, then the solution is to act the way you want us to be. If we put you on a pedestal and try to pretend to be something we're not in order to get you interested, then the best solution is to come right out and tell a joke about donkey-punching.

Relying on women to fix your outdated mindset and offputting behavior is not the best solution.

Any type of relationship will be a lot better once you're both comfortable enough with one another to be open about yourselves. It's just that a lot of guys aren't comfortable enough with themselves to do that, and that insecurity will look glaringly obvious. The problem isn't the honesty, it's that a lot of guys are hiding themselves, or not hiding themselves because they want to impress the girl. It's the fact that they've put her on a pedestal that has, ironically, caused them to lose the girl.

edited 17th Oct '11 12:25:13 PM by tropetown

Ladder theory for the win.

I think certain platonic relationships are nice.

But, anyways, I find it easy to tell the difference between, she likes me as more than a friend, and she just likes me as a friend.

My advice, have a lot of girl friends, but dont get obsessed with any of them, and if anything, at least they will introduce you to their girl friends.

@Lawyerdude

Er, the thing is though, I know guys are, well, guys, and I'm not turned off by it.

I mean, if I fall in love with a guy I'm friends with, then that I means I already know what he's like as being a friend who just is himself, and I like him anyway. So him rejecting me because he feels he'd suddenly have to put up an act would be... missing the point. Badly.

Plus, can't speak for every other woman, but I scratch myself, I fart, I don't mind porn (heck, I've even watched weird porn movies with my male friends before), I swear, I'm fine with violent video games and movies, and, well, I don't have a junk to put in people, but I like the thought of having a junk put in me?

You got me on the beer thing, though; I'm a teetotaler.

Oh, and when it comes to the pervert thing, one of the things I specifically like about my girl is that she's a pervert. (And I'm also a pervert too, really, just not as much of one as she is.) In fact... quite frankly, a lot of my female friends are perverts.

edited 17th Oct '11 12:34:36 PM by Jeysie