FL district cuts Boy Scouts-affiliated program

Way to go Pinellas County.

Teaching children personal responsibility, respect, honesty and fairness? Nah, lets just cut a program that's benefiting the area because we don't like an organization.

Brilliant.

Well kids, I hope you've learned a valuable lesson about how only belief matters and works are meaningless.

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard

Wow, that's almost..... Karl Rove-y.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

Which is lame of the Boy Scouts. But the program they're cutting, Learning for Life, was not specifically a Boy Scout program and apparently had a history of diversity. The solution?...replace Learning for Life with 'Commitment to Character'. Seems like a convoluted way of doing nothing.

I disagree with the Boy Scouts' stance, but there's gotta be a better way to show disapproval than this.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

They're not the first district that has told Scouting to get bent, and I doubt they'll be the last. It's still disappointing; IMX, the pack/troop level usually doesn't really give a damn. I got my Eagle Scout despite my apparant lack of belief at the time.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

As a former Scout, I have no problem with them running their organization like that.

It's their show, they should be able to call the shots. Might severly dampen their ability to get public funding, but that's what Troop dues and those annual candybar sales were for, to fund the local Troop and the organization as a whole.

If they're wanting public funds and stuff, well, their stance on a few things may have to change.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

Cant say I feel much sympathy for the boy scouts. they tend to be absolutely obnoxiously "moral" kids.

I knew a wide number of them who weren't obnoxious. A few were, but they were the minority. Most of us just wanted to have fun camping, play with fire and whittle stuff, and along the way, we picked up a few useful skills. My particular Troop never got preachy, as most of the scoutmasters were pretty mild as far a religious persuations went, and covered the spectrum.

Shoot, we even had a D&D team in the Troop. How awesome is that?

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

Ignore the moral aspect for a minute. What I want to know is if the right kind of white people have an organization for their kids to learn similar skills together, or if they just go without for the sake of ideological purity.

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard

All we ever did when I was in the scouts was play Doom in the scoutmaster's basement.

As for the camping trips, well.... I'll let my friend Irv tell it.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

I'm going to quote one of the comments from that article. In fact, the first one that came up for me.

And its response?

This is one of those things that if I need to explain to you exactly why this is wrong, you are fucking hopeless.

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt." - Some guy with a snazzy hat.

Can't say I feel much resonance with anything you say, because I'm an Eagle Scout and I find your attitude to be infinitely hypocritical.

"Oooh, they think they're so great being all 'moral and judging.' Well I'm better than them because I'm not moral and judging."

Better check your indignation at the door, this statement is worse than anything I ever heard in scouts, and I knew some out-and-out bullies in my pack.

I picked up my Eagle scout despite being pretty much agnostic at the time, and having become aetheist since. I just enjoyed camping and making fires and shit, it was immensely fun and rewarding. I got to travel to Florida and live on a sailboat, the Boundary Waters of northern Minnesota/Canada canoeing, England for a jamboree, and New Mexico backpacking all because of scouts.

Stop making assumptions about stuff you clearly know jack shit about.

As for the actual article: It looks like the program is only loosely associated with Boy Scouts, and claims it doesn't discriminate based on religious belief or sexual orientation.

Shouldn't they have to prove they discriminate as the Boy Scouts do before they lose funding? Christ this is scary, it's "guilt by association."

Don't get me wrong, I'm against Scouts discriminating probably more so than anyone else, it feels like a personal issue to me. I'd love to fight it, maybe even from the inside. But this program is only loosely associated with scouts and there's no evidence they enforce the same discriminatory policy.

What the fuck. What the flying fuck.

edited 13th Oct '11 1:00:34 PM by deathjavu

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.

I fail to see how the Boy Scouts are in any way punished or taught a lesson by them denying funds to an affiliated organization where membership in the Boy Scouts isn't even necessary. There was a huge lack of logic in this decision. (Personally, I have no problem with the Boy Scouts. It probably kept my brother out of trouble, and he went completely wild after quitting.)

That's what most of us are wondering. According the one of the council members, she had no personal stake in the decision, but I call BS on that. If you've got a gripe, take it up with the relevant party, don't go side-stepping and screw over people who aren't even involved.

That being said, the Scouts are a private organization with their own rules and regulations; it's their right to admit or exclude who they choose.

Unless of course they accept public funds, in which case they're a public organization and have no right to discriminate.

Public money is taken from everyone, therefore everyone should be eligible for publicly funded programs (that aren't aimed specifically at certain demographics, i.e. welfare for the poor).

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.

As far as I know, the Boyscouts don't have discrimination against atheists and agnostics. We have patches for different religions, ranging from catholic to muslim to seventh day Adventists. I am pretty sure there was just a "You don't have a religion? Well, then just don't wear a patch" rule in place.

On that note, I am a boy scout, and they range from "Boys who are there because their mom's make them, and they hate it" to "Boys who actually care about eagle and put all their time towards it" to "Boys who want to get eagle, but want to have fun as well".

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.

^ That was my experience as well, but I don't even remember religion pathches at all. Granted, it's been twenty years, so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

Incorrect, a scout is:

Trustworthy Loyal Helpful Friendly Courteous Kind Obedient Cheerful Thrifty Brave Clean and Reverent (Scout law)

Also there's the scout oath:

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
And to obey the Scout law
To help other people at all times
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

Bolded emphasis mine for the relevant bits.

Had to memorize both of those for every advancement through scouts. For Eagle scout, we were actually asked specifically about those qualities and how we feel we exemplify them. I have heard of people that were denied advancement in rank due to being irreligious or agnostic, and was personally advised not to say anything about it or lie.

So yeah, they do discriminate against agnostics and aetheists. It has nothing to do with a "patch", much like the discrimination against gays it has to do with the Scout oath and the Scout law- the morally straight having been interpreted as being sexually straight, in the most idiotic case of literalism I've ever heard of.

edited 13th Oct '11 3:20:18 PM by deathjavu

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.

So a private organization deserves immunity from homphobia? Why are thye government funded if they are "private" and can do what they want to?

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.

If someone seriously has a problem saying "to my god", and thinks "reverent" implies religion, I honestly can't help them. The religion patches are one of those "Find em in your scout book, ignore them because no one cares about them" things.

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.

If you're upset about it, get in touch with the BSA and get them to change their immoral and disrespectful policies.

edited 13th Oct '11 3:45:43 PM by Karmakin

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

Strange, I don't remember a single religious or anti-whatever regulation in the Scouts when I was in it - nothing like that was ever even brought up. Maybe a difference between British and American Scouting?

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

I'm with deathjavu here. I'm also an Eagle Scout, and while the Scouting organization is pretty conservative, quite a few disagree on the issue of excluding atheists and agnostics and especially on the issue of excluding gays. Still, I can't say I agree with the district's decision.

As a Boy Scout, I must say, .

@No homosexuals in the Boy Scouts,

Most (American) Boy Scouts are underaged, so it stands to reason that they would prohibit sexual activity, and they're also a private organization, so they're not beholden to such equality standards that the government is. I mean, I would prefer they didn't discriminate, but it's far less of a deal to me than, say, Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

As for religiousness being required, they really don't care much about it where I am. We do non-denominational vespers, and occasionally a low-level prayer service which, although it's Christian in nature, to my knowledge has some kind of back rule where it becomes non-denominational if there's a non-Christian.

Really, the people in my Troop don't make a big fuss about it at all. We just go through the motions to please the adults.

~shrug~

I, having done various service projects with the Scouts, can say that this community is probably losing more than it gains by attacking the organization...

edited 13th Oct '11 4:36:12 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.