Does this smell like a conspiracy to anyone else?

Relevant link.

I think the guy's got some great points, and his arguments can possibly be applied to other forms of statistical data as well. Thoughts?

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

I'm hearing arguments I've heard before, actually. Lots of people think the companies are fudging numbers to get the results they want. And I wouldn't be surprised that some of them do. And this guy doesn't sound like he's uber paranoid "they're secretly trying to take over the country!" He's just saying they're fudging the results.

Care to give a summary? The video won't play for me.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

It's talking about how medical studies seem to be skewed towards positive results. Even more so when medical companies are the ones doing the testing. The negative results simply aren't revealed to the buying public.

The very first examples are about things that cause/prevent cancer; Coffee is on both lists, and somehow divorce and wi-fi contribute to causing it.

edited 9th Oct '11 9:48:30 PM by AceofSpades

That's nothing new; it's an already-acknowledged issue that the scientific community has been trying to deal with for a while. I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

I believe it was Scientific American that printed a study of studies, showing that studies funded by corporations were four times more likely to get pro-corporate results. (Sadly, I've long since lost the link.)

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

Wow, that was actually a fascinating video.

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy though, if for nothing else then for the connotations that word carries. Just discuss the issue as is.

So there are several ways companies can distort results: comparing their drug against placebos rather than the best competing drug, comparing their drug against other drugs but deliberately sabotaging the dosages of the competing drug, and outright withholding negative study results (remember, there are always some positive results and some negative results just by random chance).

Damn, they're good at this shit.

Unfortunately, I'm guessing fixing the problem requires in the end, like so many other problems, getting people to care.

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.

Interesting video! Good to see he's one of those cool people who manage to make their material interesting despite working with one of the most mind-numbing and complicated aspects of science (I hated statistics. It's vitally important, but it made my brain tie itself into knots).

Be not afraid...

It can't really be a conspiracy if most people know about it. Dishonest, and possibly illegal, but not a conspiracy. But yeah, this is one of the areas where you have to really be paying attention to catch on to it.

conspiracies in the corporate world are fairly common, actually.

For example, China has more than once done cover ups for things like lead in paints that they use on their toys.

This is nothing new, it's just most everyday people don't notice when it pops up in the news. Still, by definition they ARE conspiracies since a bunch of people on corporations are in on it to deceive the government and/or their customers in order to sell their product.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

I don't think this is a conspiracy. I doubt there are multi-corporation meetings taking place in which pharmaaceutical companies make some sort of pact to deceive the consumer.

It's just a strategy that is effective, and that lots of companies adopt. That's not a conspiracy, that's just a strategy fad.

If it was a conspiracy it might be easier to stop.

Be not afraid...

Conspiracies rely on secrecy, though. As in, no one suspects it's going on let alone suggests it. This is a situation where few people are surprised it's happening.

It isn't important whether or not it's technically a conspiracy.

It's important not to use that word because it carries a lot of bad connotations that will instantly make people not take you seriously. And this is a serious issue people need to become interested in- drug companies and pharmaceuticals are just another incredibly broken-ass piece of the US healthcare system.

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.

I kinda agree in being skeptical of the medical companies' research claims that item X or activity B cause cancer.

Which is why my reaction when I hear something increases the risk of cancer is "don't give a fuck."

My grandma has told me so many things cause/reduce cancer that at this point, it seems like I am going to get cancer no matter what I do.

We should do our own study: Can Reading TV Tropes prevent cancer?

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.

well, it keeps you out of the sun. The sun can cause cancer. therefore yes.

Yes, but the sun gives you vitamin D! And vitamin D prevents cancer!

(This would make a great game: How does the above cause cancer?)

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.

The question is what doesn't have the possiblity of giving you cancer.

Death.'

100% guaranteed to prevent any cancer.

edited 10th Oct '11 2:09:32 PM by Midgetsnowman

Divorce seems completely reasonable — we've known stress throws your system all kinds of out of whack and leaves you open to things you could've nipped in the bud otherwise for ages, and divorce will definitely give you stress.

Wi-fi is up there with cellphones though. Not ionizing radiation. Won't cause cancer. May cause idiotic behavior but not cancer.

edited 10th Oct '11 2:31:22 PM by Pykrete

@the "is/isn't a conspiracy" debate: It actually is, at least technically; people colluding to accomplish something underhanded (which the drug companies and scientists are, if that lecturer is to be believed) is the essence of conspiracy. Just because we know it is occurring doesn't change the definition.

It's a conspiracy to make money at the expense of truth, IMO.

His lecture also points up an irrational faith we have as modern humans; our faith in science and numbers. I mean let's face it; numbers are always what they are. 2 is always 2, and 2+2 is always 4. This is much better than the vagaries of human interaction, where 2+2 can equal 22 with no prior explanation. And the rules of science make it sound so...well, logical and correct.

Unfortunately this only holds true with the basic stuff.

I'm going to commit an unpardonable sin and trot out a personal anecdote; I had a friend in high school who was a committed environmentalist. She was also very disparaging of people who placed ideology above facts, a flaw she found in many of the people who claimed to share her cause. She found the debates over climate change and "global warming" particularly trying, as hard data was particularly hard to come by. *

So she enrolled in college and majored in climatology, committed to finding out the truth of the matter and sharing it with the world.

Unfortunately, what she discovered was a system completely and utterly devoted towards avoiding the truth.

I met up with her a few years back; over coffee, we shared what we'd been up to since leaving high school. She complained long and bitterly...basically, because the debate had become so polarized, it was flatly impossible to get pure research done. Everyone who wanted to hire her wanted her as a showpiece to back their theory; they either wanted her to parrot what other scientists had found (using questionable methods), or do research under conditions that were guaranteed to get a certain result (because, you know, non-scientists should totally dictate research procedure). The quote that sticks with me was "They didn't want a scientist, they wanted a prostitute."

In the end she left the field and got a job doing something less touchy *

. While she's still an environmentalist in her own daily life, she's given up trying to change the world. I still feel somewhat sorry for her, but that's beside the point.

We're running into this in all manner of arenas today; our faith in science and logic being hijacked by unscrupulous businessmen and politicians to advance a position based in nothing more than personal opinion or selfish pursuit of profit. And we're falling for it. The proliferation of information available to us hasn't seemed to have helped much either.

I like this guy (the guy in the video) because he's challenging a status quo that has too long been ignored, and he's doing it using the tools of the enemy; science and numbers...except he's doing it right. Moreover, he's doing it for what sound like very good reasons; doctors needing accurate information to treat their patients.

I urge anyone who feels strongly about an issue to be as informed as you can be, to read everything (even things you don't agree with) in an attempt to balance your worldview, and to take everything you ingest with a grain of salt. And before you endeavor to get involved, make certain you are confident that you understand the situation. A good many of you are young, and a good many of you are passionate about various causes...far more likely, in other words, to change things than a jaded carcass like myself.

So be aware. Think carefully. The world you save may well be our own.

This post brought to you by the letter Q, the number 42 and the Jack Daniel's distillery.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Well hey, I forwarded this link to one of my best friends who's going in to medicine.

That's something, I guess.

I merely pointed out that addressing it as a conspiracy, rightly or wrongly, is going to bring in some bad connotations. Don't shoot the message on technicalities.

edited 10th Oct '11 10:47:58 PM by deathjavu

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.

I think I still disagree with you, Drunk, that it's a conspiracy. The companies are paying the scientists to do advertising, that's all. I doubt the scientists are deliberately trying to deceive people; they're just trying to make a living working for whoever is hiring.

Be not afraid...

Is it a conspiracy, or a douchebaggery? Cause it's more corruption than actual conspiracy. This is a pretty shitty conspiracy if it doesn't even involve the Illuminati, space lizards that drink blood, KFC, or the NHK...

Damn, conspiracies have gotten so debased lately, it's like if they're too plausible they barely count as one. Plus it can't be a conspiracy if you wouldn't be locked up in Arkham Asylum for believing it, re-education camps in China maybe, but not a looney bin. You'd be too sane for the looney bin if you believed corporations fudged their statistics. They'd lock you up if you didn't believe that.

Hell Hasn't Earned My Tears

Maybe I'm not awake enough this morning, but I read that as divorce and wi-fi causing coffee. Also, how the hell does the simple fact of getting divorced cause cancer?

Not always, for some people divorce lowers their stress, so divorce should also lower the chance of cancer.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw