The Satanism Thread

what you dont get is that they dont literally mean that. it means it figuratively, just like the section titled "On the Choice of Human Sacrifice" talks explictetly about a symbolic human sacrifce; your own energies, or that of another if you are hexing someone with a destruction ritual

"Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it..."

That one you forgot. And as far as the strong dominating the weak, im pretty sure he wasn't meaning that the strong should oppress the weak, but that wether we like it or not, in both animals and in man, it happens, and to deny it only creates problems.

also, La Veyans are very serious about obeying the law. Probably because they see the government as a strong entity responsible for justice. Indeed, some think that convicts should be used as a source of free labor instead of eating up tax dollars. its not unconstitutional for people to do work to pay off society, people do community work all the time for lesser crimes.

So if you call a Satanist a nasty name they wont literally hit you, but they will remember it and seek to embarrass you in some way probably as a form of justice.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

But why use those particular symbols unless one wants to be misunderstood?

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

because all the cool kids are misunderstood

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

...Please tell me that's not your actual answer.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

of course not, but it was the only thing i could think of, at least for the case of the atheistic Satanist.

for myself, probably because I revere Satan. I believe that Christianity has vilifed a very natural and human force that governs life. Our instincts, our emotions, our desires, all our carnal parts, governed by Satan.

if you look at christianity it makes sense that they would vilify it, they are all about opposing nature in the quest for "rightousness" and "godlike holiness' Christian doctrine goes right out to say that nature and man are corrupt and cant live meanful lives unless you have Jesus.

Though I guess in the same way La Veyans have the same idea, but it is all an allagory for something mundane to them. alao most La Veyans arnt bothered by Christians being idiots about it, they will most likely already see Christians as a bunch of self denying morons anyway, since well, that's pretty much what their founder said.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

''"Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it..." That one you forgot.''

I didn't forget it—I listed it and even mentioned it as specifically one that seems like a Take That! at Christianity, which (traditionally) has espoused forgiveness and love regardless of the person.

And as far as the strong dominating the weak, im pretty sure he wasn't meaning that the strong should oppress the weak, but that wether we like it or not, in both animals and in man, it happens, and to deny it only creates problems.

Maybe, a lot of Satanist authors I have read treat it to be ethical though. Here is from an essay on the official Church of Satan website (though not written by La Vey):

" The Satanic view sees as ethical the reality of domination of the weak by the strong. The assertion in Objectivism is that the use of force to cause others to submit to the will of the stronger or cleverer individual is "wrong" for the individual. This is a second major assertion which Satanism finds unproven by the Objectivists."

From an essay comparing and contrasting Satanism and Objectivism, saying that domination of the weak by the strong is ethical, and that the assertion about the use of force being wrong is an unproven one.

Probably because they see the government as a strong entity responsible for justice. Indeed, some think that convicts should be used as a source of free labor instead of eating up tax dollars.

They are in luck then, because not only is it not unconstitutional, but many imprisoned are already in a state of pseudo-slavery. That's one of the issues with our for-profit jail system. There is a lot of money to be made for certain corporations in in keeping the prisons full.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/gilmoreprisonslavery.html

Most Christians respect the law as well, unless the law commands you to break the laws of Christianity (obvs). In Catholicism, respect for the law is itself a requirement, the same way Jesus also submitted to Jewish law in his lifetime. But the emphasis tends to be more on ministering and visiting those in prison, as opposed to trying to turn a profit from their labor.

Its just two different ways of looking at the world, I guess. For me, the whole deliberate contrasts with Christianity are clear though, so its obvious why he called himself a "Satanist" in spite of being atheistic.

edited 11th Oct '11 1:11:22 AM by Tiph

Well then I can thankfully say I do not agree on the use of force on the weak as ethical.

i wont believe something just to spite Christians, and the belief in the strong dominating the weak seems a lot like that to me. I'll only accept something ethical if I have a good reason.

=-=-

But how many people here are actually Satanists? For the most part I can't tell which one of yous are Satanists or just knowledgeable.

also i was hoping this would gear evenly between Theistic and atheistic but apparently the latter is all the rage

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

What is the difference between your brand of Satanism and Objectivism, other than the fact that you are theistic? I mean beyond any superficial trappings (rituals and other aspects) and getting at core doctrine, here.

edited 10th Oct '11 10:48:09 PM by tropetown

IM NOT A LAVEYAN, I ONLY TAKE SOME HEAVY INFLUNCES FROM IT

sigh... ok

again i have no idea what the hell objectivism is

but you want to know my beliefs?

I believe that a force i uncreatively call 'the darkness' (by sheer virtue that it represents entropy) created teh universe, and governs all scientific laws falling outside of the life sciences.

I believe that Satan is teh force that governs life through evolution instincts yada yada

and somewhere along teh line Jehovah got a god complex, and has turned into a force of unnatural oppression

and i beleive that magik is simply connecting to the universe to bring about subtle changes in social dynamics/ones life. i do not believe that magik can effect anything else other than the mind

its something like that sorry im very tired

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

Ok, now we're getting somewhere.

1. If this "darkness" that you're speaking of created the universe, why would it organize it into natural laws if it's the embodiment of entropy? Shouldn't it have just left the universe in chaos instead?

2. Fair enough, you venerate the natural evolutionary instincts that are common to all of us; you'll hear nothing against that from me. However, why call these instincts "Satan"? It doesn't seem necessary to literally add the figure of Satan to it; I could understand it as a metaphorical representation, like the LaVeyans do, but how did you come to the conclusion that the Judeo-Christian figure of Satan was literally the source of these instincts?

Again, we've come closer to what I was wondering about; what I really meant, though, was how your philosophical/moral system was any different from the Objectivist point of view, minus any theistic trappings. No doubt they're similar (more similar than yours and LaVeyan Satanism seem to be, anyway), what I want to know is how they are different. I'm genuinely curious, here.

edited 10th Oct '11 11:15:54 PM by tropetown

no, like scientific entropy

entropy is a measurement of chaos. what i meant was that its name comes from thermodynamics, one its domains of the non living sciences

in a closed system thigns will get more chaotic; this is happening with the universe now. T He Darkness created the universe and ever since it has been breaking down over all. one place may get more orderd, but at the expense of another places

Satan is a god of life, he works against entropy through evolution. the body is not a closed system so through exploiting the universe we can repair our bodies and change. its like as an entity life gets around the entropy.

But why do i call it Satan? because in Chrisitan doctrine Satan represented these things.

but why do i think Satan is the source? if i believe in pantheism and the Christians vilfied my carnal nature, then they are vilifying nature to me.

Satan as a source? Um. The only way i can answer it is that Satan is the god of life.. perhaps he created life? that would make sense i think... since if the darkness created teh non living parts of the universe and rules it it would follow that satan did the same thing.

but really i feel that there is a force that governs life, but i dont see it strictly as the christian satan; i belive their view of satan is just a twisted version of the life god i keep talking about.

seeking knowledge, using logic, striking back in danger, feeling compassion for a loved one, all are things that originate from the Satan in and outside of us. think of it kind of like a life energy. somewhat like the Force in star wars. well the Force in star wars is generated by life, so in an allegorical sense Satan to me is kind of like the Force in Star Wars. he comes from life but also sometimes has his own will.

plus since i believe in being with the positive (light) and negative (dark) in unison and balance, the Force makes another good allegory.

sorry thats the best way to explain it; Star Wars takes a lot of eastern ideas into it and Pantheism is one of those ideas mixed in.

i need to go soon, maybe i can say one more short thing then i gottta go

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

I know nothing about Satanism, but:

Is it possible to get a god complex if you actually are a god? The only God, according to most Christian doctrines.

Be not afraid...

i mean that he thinks hes the creator and perfect when really hes an egotistical bastard who only cares about how many people ha can get to worship his bullshit

The Darkness is the creator. The jewish/christian god is only a Mesopotamian spirit that got high on power. i bet he was some dick before he died and then decided to become a god.

is that what you were looking for?

and yes, i believe spirits can acheive a type of godhood in a more ancient sense of the word. much of the same relative power as Baal or some other god. i think most of htem were probably enlightented spirits that gained some kidn of estoric power through figuring out how to connect with the universe

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

I still would have suggested some other reference, instead of to a fallen angel cast out of heaven for loving god too much, who was then portrayed as a spiteful sinner who did things For the Evulz

edited 10th Oct '11 11:36:50 PM by Lanceleoghauni

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"

BUT SIN IS WHAT THIS LIFE GOD IS ALL ABOUT

emphasis added so you wil not overlook it

it makes less sense for me to call it anything else. what do you suppose? "oh vilfied sin fulled god all about enlightment and human development and our carnal nature, i call to thee!'

when i can instead just say "hail satan!"

its pretty much the same thing

edit: sorry still very tired and most bail another 200 blocks of hay in the morning, too tired to think articulated stuff so i use caps to convey the imporant parts

edited 10th Oct '11 11:42:04 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

Off-topic: What happened to the mass immigration thread?

Enjoy the Inferno...

It was deleted, as far as anyone can tell.

Why should a non-christian care about sins?

More importantly, why would you call it a sin if you think it's what you're supposed to be doing?

It sounds like an excuse to be defensive. "so you like... X?" "NO IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT WHY WOULD YOU ASSUME THAT ARGH."

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"

It seems like it's easier to just use the term Ethical Hedonist.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

To deny the self, yes. Morons, no. Don’t be insulting to something you don’t necessarily disagree with, or simply because you think most of those silly Christians would just turn the other cheek to it.

Unless you want it in kind, that is.

Explain this. I’m not trying to call you out or make you look like a fool, but I’m honestly confused by this statement. Entropy is usually seen as the byproduct of waste from thermodynamic equilibrium (take this with a grain of salt, I’m not physicist), meaning that it’s something that’s created by the equilibrium of a system. I’m just confused how something like that could create the universe.

I’m also a tad confused with the whole sin debacle as well. Sin, insofar as the word’s common connotations are concerned, are primarily Christian. Otherwise, sin is something that either is or seems to be inherently bad, either for one’s physical or spiritual well being. So if something is good, and you believe it’s good, then it’s no longer a sin. Why the need to be distinctive in word choice, especially considering the already flagrant Christian overtones by calling the whole belief structure Satanism?

Though to be honest, I can see where they come from in that regard, since seeing religion as a tool for the weak is a fairly old idea, despite it also being conter-intuitive. Regardless, seeing as it’s practically the other side of the coin in comparison to Christianity and such, Satanism as a name makes sense.

If I remember my high school chemistry classes properly, entropy is disorder and chaos. Something is said to increase entropy if it decreases the 'order' of the universe.

I'm not sure, but isn't the idea of entropy creating anything ordered somewhat of a contradiction?

edited 11th Oct '11 5:27:52 PM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...

That's why my confusion comes as well.

As a belief, this makes enough sense, since one train of thought thinks that the universe is entropic by nature, even if it's very slow. But for a being that either is the concept of entropy or is entropic by nature creating something, well, that just sounds odd.

Not more odd than a group of people worshiping a zombie as their lord and savior, but still odd none the less.

edited 11th Oct '11 6:24:12 PM by Newfable

What. Agreeing with one term in a tautology necessarily means you agree with the other term.

edited 11th Oct '11 7:51:46 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'