I used to love robots...

I should throw my shoes at you for that!

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

Still works if it is a brick shoe.

Of course, as the number of the latter grows, the number of the former shrinks. The end result is an unsustainable economy and poverty and unrest all 'round. Like Greece and Spain, but with more robots.

Most of the people on this website are firmly in the camp of 'folk who can be easily replaced at work by vending machines', so you'll need to watch your backs.

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'

What people are overlooking is that new jobs come along to replace the ones removed due to machines. If this were not true we would be facing a 99% unemployment rate.

But what happens when the robots can repair themselves? Where are we then? Where do we draw the line?

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

Oh you'll have brick shoes alright. The last pair you'll ever wear.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

That's like asking a peasant farmer to predict that in the future people would work full time answering questions about an information network made of copper and sand and that keeps going down.

When there is high unemployment, people find things they can get paid to do. Thus we got the interwebs.

And if the machines completely replace human labor: congratulations, unemployment is no longer a problem, because scarcity is extinct, and "having a job" isn't the difference between eating or starving, but between feeling purposeful and just enjoying yourself.

Fresh-eyed movie blog

So humans have no reason to get up in the morning except to pursue hollow, meaningless, simulated pleasures? That sounds like a horrible existence.

edited 30th Jan '13 4:37:00 AM by maxwellelvis

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

I think you forget about the section of the population whose lives feel hollow and meaningless doing little more than work, eat, and sleep.

And there are lots of things we value besides labor. There is no inherent meaning to anything. Things have value because we give it value. Why do you think we pay people to create art and literature?

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...

How can get get more hollow and meaningless than slaving away years of your life working at a fast food restaurant?

By doing nothing of any value.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

Generally people need to feel "needed". A lot of the lower jobs do not give this because people know that they are easily replaceable and are thus not "needed." Not having a job at all, this void could be filled by relationships, art, discovery, whathaveyou. It might be difficult to find what "needs" you but it's certainly better than the terror of barely scraping by paycheck-to-paycheck, don't you think?

edited 30th Jan '13 7:45:16 AM by ohsointocats

I suspect that different people find or perceive value in different things: one might find it in contributing to the economy, in helping others, in finding happiness, in contributing to culture or the body of human knowledge, or in something else entirely. As I see it, the obsolescence of human jobs only removes one of those (excluding any possible sources of value that I haven't identified), and may significantly empower others.

edited 30th Jan '13 7:47:43 AM by ArsThaumaturgis

My Games & Writing

A post-scarcity society would necessarily have to shift society's value. Current society says that people who do not contribute to the economy are worthless, and people who contribute little are worth less than those who contribute more. When there is no economy to contribute to, you have to value people differently.

^ And a post-scarcity economy is a complete pipe dream. There is no such thing as infinite resources.

Amusingly Deep Space Nine goes into why a post-scarcity economy is a bad thing. "It's easy to be a Saint in paradise" especially when everyone and everything around you is not what you are.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

If a person's entire self-worth is based on the speed at which they can make chicken, then I think they have deeper issues to deal with than a lack of a job.

Most people would find ways to amuse themselves if given all the time in the world to do so. Hell, If allowed, I'd probably have no issues with spending all day, every day surfing the internet.

And reading.

And writing.

And perfecting dozens of other skills that I can still use for my personal amusement, or the amusement of others.

Any person who has a crippling lack of value just because they're jobless*

really should get more imaginative.

Life already is hollow and meaningless anyway. Why do you think so many people watch reality TV?

You would wish to pursue your whims while the machines do all the labor?

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

Why is that such a problem if there are machines built to do all the labor? Why are whims so meaningless?

I mean, the thing is, mechanization was supposed to significantly decrease the number of labor hours worked, and despite increased mechanization, that hasn't been happening of late. I mean we are always complaining that "people are not raising their kids these days!" or doing this or that because they don't have time, wouldn't having time to do those things make life better, even people did still have to work some?

I would much rather be taking my dog for a walk then vacuuming my carpet. If robo-vacuum does the job for me, then point me to the nearest robo-vacuum store.

Preferably while there is a sale going on.

"What a century this week has been." - Seung Min Kim

I would. I do not get my sense of fulfillment from manual labor.

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...

... Pretty much, I think.

As long they're doing a good job, I see no reason that I might not attend to one or more of the other aspects that I described: contributing to culture or knowledge, creating entertainment, contributing to family or social matters, etc.

Do I take it that you argue that there is only significant value in one's economic contribution to society?

My Games & Writing

Well, yeah. I mean, if you aren't earning money through work, how do you plan to support all these great things you can do now that you don't have a steady paycheck? That goes for as well.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

There seems to be a communication error here. One side people are talking about post-scarcity society and the other people are struggling to understand what that means.

I am not certain if full automation means post scarcity though.