Don't we already have that one? (page action crowner): Obvious Judas

Obvious Judas was launched earlier this year, and it's about a good character who betrays his allies and becomes evil.

...sounds familiar? Because that's totally what the Face–Heel Turn trope is for. The only difference here is that for Obvious Judas, some troper expected the character to turn evil, but that's pretty subjective. Also, it's pretty easy to say in retrospect that you could have seen that one coming.

I think a merge would be a good idea here.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

I think there's a difference between:

And:

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

Well lets see, anime examples.

• Aizen. Thats some serious hindsight going on.
• Vegeta? Vegeta?! He changes sides more times than Kain did!
• Sasuke? Eeeehhh
• And a DEFIED from Yu Yu Hakusho.

Meh.

edited 6th Sep '11 5:18:08 AM by SakurazakiSetsuna

Yeah, I see how in practice this is being used as The Un-Twist But More Specific.

This needs a tighter definition.

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

Wtf.... so this is like Obvious Heel Face Turn Guy? wouldn't that be YMMV anyway?

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Yeah, this is definitely a thing, and I know I've even commented on it, but I can't think of examples because I've been up for...way too long. But the definition needs tightening, and at least in the anime section, the existing examples are misuse.

edited 6th Sep '11 5:24:01 AM by SakurazakiSetsuna

Obviously Evil?

Fight smart, not fair.

^ Seems like a subtrope of that, and more like "Obvious Traitor," or more precisely, "this character will obviously betray the team in the future, even if they are all for it now."

Sort of a "totally trustworthy, honest..." sort of thing.

I can see how this can be a trope, but it doesn't need to be made to have a strong individual presence to differentiate it.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

This trope kind of rubs me the wrong way. At best, it's YMMV. At worst, it's redundant and unnecessary and should be nuked.

I'd agree to that.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

Yeah, this trope is going to need a complete rewrite to be objective. "Foreshadowing via Shout-Out of a character betraying the rest" could certainly be a trope, though.

Definitely subjective. Doesn't mean it has no place on the wiki, though.

Yeah, I'd say this trope is legit as-is, but happens to be subjective.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

This part of the trope's description makes me wonder if cutting it might be the best solution.

From what I can tell, that leaves this trope as a purely subjective audience reaction. I think there may be grounds for a trope about the creator(s) of a work making it pretty obvious that a character is going to betray his/her group, but if so, I feel like this trope's description needs to be edited a bit.

edited 9th Jan '12 1:02:59 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

Yep, it's just speculation. Face–Heel Turn And I Totally Expected That Honestly.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

How about Face–Heel Turn, but the "face" had plenty of Evil Tropes apply to them to begin with?

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

At the moment, this looks Too Subjective To Trope. Unless somebody has a brilliant idea on how to redefine it, I vote cut or possibly redirect.

I vote cut. Based on the part Louie W bolded, I agree with the post directly above about it being too subjective.

edited 21st Mar '12 5:13:59 AM by ThatHuman

something

I don't think we should cut it. Either move it to YMMV or rewrite it to be objective.

The trope is compares itself to Narrowed It Down to the Guy I Recognize, which is YMMV. No reason this can't be made the same.

Either that or we can try to make it about ways of foreshadowing that character will be the traitor.

edited 21st Mar '12 6:05:27 AM by Catbert

Cut. Otherwise we'll need to get a time machine, go back in time and add Severus Snape as an example, then travel to a future where some of us will mock the others for getting it wrong.

Empty page action crowner hooked.

I didn't write any of that.

Bumping for votes.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Bump for more votes.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

Calling crowner: tighten up the definition, make YMMV, and clean the examples. Do not rename.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Looking at the page history, all of this is still left to be done.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.