VERY messy!: Names To Run Away From Really Fast

Seriously guys, that article is a complete clusterfuck, why can't we just have a separate page for each medium like we do with...everything else?

Do you mean," it's very large and should be split into medium subpages"?

Yeah like a video games page, a western animation page, a film page, etc...

If a certain show/game/book/whatever has too many examples, give it its own page.

Having it organized by the names itself is just confusing.

Actually this makes more sense. The idea is to describe the trope, and by organizing the names by the reason they make you run away from them really fast, it helps describe the trope just that much more clearly than the description does.

Pretty much. If we organized it by medium we'd have a really heterogenous mix of scary names. While there's nothing wrong with sorting by medium for "smaller" tropes, it just isn't as useful for describing how, say, color can be used as part of a name to intimidate.

If we were to reorganize by putting all the name variations on the mainpage and creating subpages for every medium, we'd basically have a huge mainpage of name types and many lists of scary names without the benefit of being able to quickly find examples of each name type.

This is getting perilously close to either "subjective" or "trivia", it seems. People are just throwing anything in about characters they like. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not much of an objective trope if it's treated like that.

So then clear out borderline examples. It's already been done at least once before iirc.

This trope gets potholed a lot, for the record. Not sure what that means, but it does contribute to the heavy usage.

I don't think there is any problem with the layout. The trope is simply divided into subtropes. That's actually a pretty clear layout.

The subpages could probably need some weeding-out. Especially the The Adjective One page seems to not really fit with the original trope definition, as nicknames given to a character specifically because he is 'badass' or evil are not this trope.

But as to the layout, I see no problem.

edited 8th Oct '11 10:19:19 AM by LordGro

As it is now, the subpages are defined as "trope subpages".

I'm thinking about changing their pagetypes into "trope" and adding them as kids to the parent trope "Names To Run Away From". Thoughts?

Good idea

Works for me.

No. They aren't separate tropes. They're subdivisions of the same trope. Leave them as subpages.

They all have their own description. Really, whats different with them and subtropes?

But aren't at least some variants of this trope self-standing (sub)tropes? Name of Cain is already defined as a subtrope, although it is technically covered in the Notorious Killers subpage.

I still think that the layout is okay from a user's perspective. I don't know if the design (the subpages are in their own namespace Names to Run Away From/ ) complies with the guidelines, though.

Otherwise, I have changed the page type of Names to Run Away From from "index" to "trope+indexing". However, the wiki doesn't index the subpages. I don't know why.

edited 8th Oct '11 11:05:37 AM by LordGro

The index markup was wrong. Instead of having one [[index]] and one [[/index]] at the very beginning and end of the lists, there needed to be one pair on each section. The !! lines were breaking it. Take a look at the source page to see what I did.

And I hadn't realized that those were all already namespaced. In that case, yes, changing them to "a trope" page is ok.

Thank you Madrugada for fixing the index.

I began to change the page types of the subpages to "trope", but when I added them as 'kids', I discovered that the links on the relationship page do not work properly with them. This is obviously because these pages are in their own Names to Run Away From/ namespace. Clicking on the link at the top of Adjectives's relationship page leads to Adjectives (an empty page).

Aside from that, I now think too that the subpages do not necessarily correspond to subtropes. "People named for adjectives indicating evilness" or "People named after notorious killers" are not really tropes. Characters named "Vicious", "Nefarious" or "Cain", on the other hand, are tropes (I assume), but mostly they don't deserve their own pages.

In short, I'd prefer to leave them as subpages except those subtropes that deserve their own trope page on the Main/ namespace, like Name of Cain.

I also tried to formulate a warning about misuse when adding examples, and I will go through the example lists of the whole complex to eliminate bad examples (by and by).

edited 9th Oct '11 2:13:32 PM by LordGro

This has a subpage Notorious Killers with the section "Gunman with Three Names". Gunman with Three Names has its own page which is even linked to there, so there is both a separate page for it and a section for it.

edited 10th Oct '11 8:25:15 AM by arromdee

I've noticed people misusing this trope to just mean something more like 'When people hear of this character, they're terrified.' As in, it's a person you want to run away from really fast, but the name itself is pretty neutral. Has anyone else noticed bad examples like this, or is that just something isolated I've been seeing?

No, it's not just you. There are raftloads of those, where the name is perfectly innocuous if you don't know the specific work. Like "Johan".

Would that be something like "What Do You Mean Its Not Terrifying" ?

Then if it's not just me, I would like to state that the name may be partially responsible. They're names to run away from, but it doesn't say why. The trope is basically Inherently Terrifying Name, but the trope name does not clearly indicate such.

That said, I'm not sure if a rename is exactly warranted at this point without either a wick check to see how widespread it is. Plus, cleanup and redirects should probably come first. Just that the trope has issues we need to address.

edited 10th Oct '11 11:01:22 AM by Arha

Inherently Terrifying Name is an excellent option.

I went through Adjectives, The Adjective One and Nouns and weeded the example lists. It shows that there are many problems with overlap, i.e. many types of names are covered on several subpages. For example, there is a section for names containing "Tod" or "tot" on Foreign Language Names, but many of these names are also listed on Nouns under "Names containing 'Death'" (Tod = German for death).

And that's not even taking into account that many of the same examples are also listed on the numerous example pages of Meaningful Name.

@arromdee: Thank you for the tip. I added Gunman with Three Names as a kid trope to Names to Run Away From and as a link on the page. The same for My Hero, Zero.

Besides, I added Names to Run Away From as a kid trope to Meaningful Name. So we should eventually purge Meaningful Name from all examples that fit under Names to Run Away From. Is that okay?

edited 10th Oct '11 11:19:15 AM by LordGro

So, we need to clean up the main page, possibly splitting it in the process and then clean up examples. Are we going to go the whole way and do a rename to make it clearer what this trope is supposed to be about?