Incomprehensible description, incomprehensible name, and poor use.: Malus Ex Machina

Though the entire index it's in bothers me because half aren't even puns but are just snowclones on the same grammatical framework, this one takes the cake.

The description is rambling and can entirely be replaced with 'read these two tropes, combine them, and possibly give them multiple bodies or something'. Not the most sensible description.

The name seems to assume some knowledge of Latin and*

seems to roughly mean 'Bad from the Machine'. Not... terribly informative, that.

And, finally, usage: whilst the examples on the page might be correct—I don't have a clue, not being familiar with any of them*

—the related page shows that things aren't going very well: most of the related links are potholes, indexes, and various Just for Fun things. There's even a Lost And Found entry.

At the very least, it seems to need a rename, if not a clearer description...

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Rename is generally considered the last choice, a desperate measure to save a trope when all other measures have failed. Rewriting the definition is probably a good place to start. Adding redirects is usually helpful as well. This sounds like a bad enough case that a redirect might be justified, but the proposition needs closer examination.

Obscure-foreign-term and Everythings Worse With Snowclones are both good arguments for a rename here, though.

edited 27th Aug '11 2:39:31 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Obscure-foreign-term implies it was even a term to begin with. Given that Deus ex Machina comes from a Roman description of something in Greek theatre that gained its meaning over time, if I remember correctly, it's highly unlikely this one existed until the trope did. Slightly irrelevant, though.

Oh, it turns out malus can also mean evil. Evil from the Machine? Sounds more like A.I. Is a Crapshoot, which presumably can be involved in this trope but not all of it. Certainly has nothing to do with people hacking into other people's minds...

Everythings Worse With Snowclones applies to the entire index, really, though at least they seem to get used.

edited 27th Aug '11 2:47:05 PM by RainehDaze

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^ You mean Search Generated Index?

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

I meant the whole Ind ex Machina thing. Due to the differing names, it isn't a Search Generated Index, just one with dubious naming. Every name in it requires knowledge of Deus ex Machina for the name to make sense—and some of the trope names mix English with Latin for the sake of a pun—whilst the others require that and knowledge of Latin.

Except for Diabolus ex Nihilo, which merely requires knowledge of Latin and aggravates me a lot less, for some bizarre reason.

On reflection, I have no idea what Ave Machina is doing on there, it's not a Deus ex Machina trope—the only similarity is it includes Machina. And since its name is a pun on Ave Maria and that's in Latin to start with... gah, that's just misplaced. =/

edited 27th Aug '11 5:11:31 PM by RainehDaze

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This is a clear example of a badly named trope. Mangled Latin Snowclones are not a good base for trope names. And yes, renaming is certainly a valid option for a trope that isn't working well.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

Malus ex Machina found in: 24 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 37 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

Yeah, renaming is very much an option. Even if there's absolutely zero misuse (which I doubt, but still), its an option. Still need the crowner and stuff, of course.

As someone who knows a bit of Latin, I still don't understand how "evil out of the machine" could mean "hacking people's minds". Rename.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

There is now a single proposition crowner for this trope here.

I think a rename is called for given the unclear title and the relative lack of wicks and inbounds, in addition to the obscure-foreign-term and Everythings Worse With Snowclones reasons that Xtifr mentioned.

In any event, I feel like we should probably consider the tropes on the "Ex Machina" index separately if there seem to be issues with their titles.

edited 28th Aug '11 1:23:42 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

I apologize for doubleposting, but I did not want this thread to be forgotten. Given the support for a rename, there is now an alternative titles crowner for this trope here. I think the names I came up with are pretty bad, so feel free to add other names as you see fit.

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

Any last-minute objections to calling this for Digitized Hacker?

Do it, no one's complaining at this point.

I did the rename, but won't have time to change all the wicks right now. Fortunately, there are no discussions or laconics to move.