Isn't this a deliberate characterization?: Moe

You can't just say "I find moe characters generally annoying", its meaningless. What characters? From what shows? What characters do you find moe?

Thats why this is more subjective than objective. We can make an objective description of the concept, but you've just show that the actual implementation is entirely subjective!

This is one of those things thats always existed, but no one ever gave a name to before. Similar to Tsundere in that respect, though less clear cut.

I can and do find non-Anime/Japanese characters moe. And I always have, even before I even knew the term existed. Just like how there have always been tsundere, but before 2003 or so, no one ever gave them a name.

Not necessarily. S/he can simply mean that moe is objective, but it's not a good thing. That way the argumentation is consistent.

So, anyway, we're back at the "subjective trope, with a list of objective tropes on it that are often used to get the reaction" verdict?

Re-linking due to roll over to the Adorkable augment for subjectiveness, for the same reasons which was shot down in flames: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1310265980041293000&page=1

edited 26th Sep '11 3:47:09 AM by Vyctorian

Moe in its simplest form is is "weakness played for Cute and lovable" An entire series doesn't do that, a character does and when this gets played a lot then it would be a Character Trait which would put it in this trope.

Series your probably thinking of where everyone has a MoeTrait but calling it a Moe Series is a bit much. The big thing I think is they play off massive amounts of cuteness (maybe with a tiny bit of Sexual chemistry but not required.)

Series I would put in that (off the top of my head)

• K On
• Hidamari Sketch
• Hanamaru Kindergarten
• Strike Witches
• A Channel
• Yuru Yuri
• Lucky Star
• Azumanga Daioh
• Ichigo Mashimaro

of course no guys is in any of these series except for maybe a POV character..

edited 26th Sep '11 3:51:42 AM by Raso

The trope is objective and needs a better description, but there are a set of traits that make a moe character regardless if you have the intended reaction or not.

You didn't answer my question.

Yeah, that's what I meant, a series where the moe element is very pronounced.

And, Raso, regardless of whether you and I think it's a bit much, people do use the term that way. I'm not sure we should make it a trope, but we should definitely mention it. "Some people use the nebulous term moe series to refer to a series centred around moe characters, usually of Slice of Life genre." That I think is only fair.

edited 26th Sep '11 3:52:05 AM by Catalogue

• Cuteness of Kawaii like levels which has a level of subjectiveness to it, so does everything else so we'd be going with the commonly accepted level of cuteness here.

• Character appears to be weak and in need of help and protection, usually resulting in the character being put into tense situations.

• Character may or may not be clumsy or sexual.

Character may or may not be clumsy or sexual.

What?

Some moe characters are at times clumsy or have sexual tropes associated with them Though that is not always a determining factor towards there moe-ness, it is often invoked along side it so I mentioned it.

edited 26th Sep '11 4:00:10 AM by Vyctorian

Yeah I see a page in there I just think we can find a better term for it than Moe Series.... it might stop the misuse of the Iyashikei Genre page.

Oh, there's a name for those... I learnt something today.

I think it interesting that we seem to be using the word in somewhat different way from how The Other Wiki defines it.

Still, absolutly nothing has been said here that was not said on the last TRS thread. This is really starting to feel like double jeopardy or something. We shouldn't be putting trope on trial every two months. Leave it be. Maybe we can revisit this in another two years or something if it causes actual documentable problems.

edited 26th Sep '11 5:12:26 AM by Auxdarastrix

Well, it's a pre-existing term that has no definite definition.

The Other Wiki focuses on the reaction. This reaction produced character molds, techniques, etc. (that is, tropetastic elements) which people use in the media.

Also, it's a neologism. It is 1) fuzzy and has no fixed authority, and 2) grows.

We already have tropes for various art styles and character style which may or may not invoke moe. However considering the word seems to be originally about an Audience Rection, I say keep it under YMMV.

We could limit it to references to the term, even if they don't always agree what it means.

Hello. The clock's expired on this thread. People have tossed out all sorts of random suggestions, but nobody seems to have come to any conclusions. This is going round in circles. Nothing productive is happening. I move to end the discussion and lock the thread.