Tottenham Riots

Hmm. If the attitude about that mode of dress is more wide spread and the malls ban dressing in a certain way.

Not sure what to say about it. I can understand the concern about dressing in certain ways worrying people though. The whole looks like duck attitude.

Banks and airports have some justification, but first it's malls, then public places. Big Brother is no joke in Britain, they have the most security cameras per capita.

And in many ways, malls are the city centres these days. It's the public living room, especially for teens. Their fashion includes hoodies and caps. Banning them might decrease shoplifting, but it also creates a sense of alienation in teens, making them feel like undesireables. That kind of developement is dangerous. As seen today, if you feel like society doesn't like you, you bring it right back to them.

While I'd agree Jethro I'm not sure how that really relates to what is going on today. People are just being thugs for the sake of it really, not sure if it is anything to do with feeling like an outcast of society. May see if I can help with the clean up tomorrow if I can.

edited 7th Aug '11 3:35:14 PM by PiccoloNo92

Jethero: You do have a point but that still does not excuse violence of this nature.

Thing is I understand riots when a group is especially marginalised and treated badly like what happened in the 1980s where the apparent institutionalised racism in the Metropolitan Police arguably led to the violence. Not that violence is desirable but at least that I can understand. But this... Seeing my local community smashed up because of a few hundred thugs causing trouble and destruction just for teh lulz and because they don't feel like splashing out on products... I know people are capable of that, but I can't even remotely begin to sympathise with it and as my golden rule I try to empathise with people as much as I can.

edited 7th Aug '11 5:08:46 PM by PiccoloNo92

Or you could just wear your hoodie without the hood up, blam, everyone wins.

Yeah, but that would require thinking. And we can't have that in a modern world.

The obvious solution to knife crime is to ban clothes.

Anyhow, overnight:

• London riots: Looting and violence continues — expanding to Enfield, Walthamstow and Waltham Forest in North London and in Brixton in South London (Brixton is another area where Riots occured during The '80s).

• London riots: live — By the way, The BBC don't appear to be running a live feed, but The Daily Telegraph is, so here it is...

What the f**k. Riots are spreading? Stone-throwing?

This is a third-world phenomenon.

edited 8th Aug '11 3:14:12 AM by Shichibukai

It's worse then that, and it's not just Blacks, it's young of all races. This is a problem with low-class young people, not one racial group in particular:

• London riots: Theresa May to meet police chiefs
• Was Tottenham's riot a cry of rage?
• Daily View: Comparing Saturday's riot to 1985

edited 8th Aug '11 4:02:59 AM by Greenmantle

I have a light complexion, so I don't get any complaints about wearing my hoodie with the hood up. It seems unfair to subject black kids to a different standard.

On-topic, I'm still waiting to see what other information comes out.

It's also worth remembering that the people of the area, the protestors, the rioters, the looters are not necessarily synonymous. There's a tendency to think that the whole crowd would have been of one mind, but that's a mistake, and the police and powerful are very quick to judge them all the same and try to invalidate the intent and justification for the protests because of the behavior of rioters and looters.

Once the police and authorities start treating the population of an area as Other, not Us, and the population start doing the same to the police and authorities — that's when things are ripe for public unrest. The population of the area plainly do not trust the authorities to tell them the truth, and this is an opinion I'm sure built up through bitter personal experience of being treated like criminals, lied to, deceived, not protected, and treated badly.

And the fact is: the police's first version of things is not necessarily trustworthy, and not necessarily through malice.

In unrelated news, there's a good chance that they may hit Westfield in Wood Green later today. Wood Green, I should point out, is the current home of the BBC (Until they move to Manchester or something) to the point they're just next door to Westfield so I'm guessing they might be in trouble as well.

Also from the guardian they might attack oxford circus as well, which is a stupid idea. They'll be killed by shoppers the moment they attack one of the big name stores.

The police have already made a lot of noise to absolve themselves of any blame over incidents before the riot. Considering that there's still an internal investigation to be had by the police into those incidents, that's a very dangerous thing to do.

It also doesn't help that there is a demand for instant answers when (obviously) the IPCC will take a while (months) to complete their investigation.

This is doing our world reputation some good, amirite?

edited 8th Aug '11 8:01:24 AM by revertedtozero

Regarding the 'he had a gun' thing, it's quite possible, due to their mistrust of the police, that the protesters believed that the gun had been planted on him. Especially given the fact that an officer apparently shot his own radio.

Saying that the police did the right thing only works if the aggrieved party has the slightest iota of trust in the police, and the Tottenham community apparently does not.

I would say Viva La Revolution, but this just sounds really to fucked up to say even that to.

The people are making their voices heard, so that is comforting.

I was under the impression that Mark Duggan was armed but hadn't even drawn his weapon when he was shot until I saw this thread.

edited 8th Aug '11 9:37:14 AM by pagad

One good thing may come out of this - any music related to riots, disaffected yoof and urban malaise appears appropriate. So I can play my Clash albums again, and someone's bound to revive Ghost Town by The Specials (which was a big hit at the time of the 1981 Brixton riots).

???

Wood Green is in North London in Tottenham. The BBC studios are situated in White City on Wood Lane in Hammersmith. They are over seven miles apart. I can't imagine them getting all the way to Wood Lane and I can't imagine that Wood Green isn't already caught up in things.

Whoops, did I just type that?

Anyway, there's been a minor incident happening where I live where the local jewelers got smashed up. Everyone went around and saw it and the general sentiment with everyone there is 'Those Bastards'. I hope that's what they're thinking right now.

Not from what I've seen. There was a national news story here because the police decided to chase down a pastor of a black community for driving in a stolen vehicle. His suspicious behaviour? He forgot to pay a cashier at a coffee shop, drove back around to pay and then drove off, then the police chased after him.

What did people specifically say? "If he didn't dress like a gangster he wouldn't be treated like one".

He was a pastor, dressed like a god damned pastor.

edited 8th Aug '11 11:31:06 AM by breadloaf