Marvel Cinematic Universe

Okay, I guess that's fair...I think. Really, Orthodoxy is decidedly not my area of expertise.

edited 18th Sep '14 6:19:23 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Nor mine. But a history of Christianity course was required at my high school, and I still remember some of the details.

@Sharknado, probably. I used to know more but upon discovering it was all the same origin story but because of geographic differences and, you know, humans will be humans with their mistakes and their conflicts and their ability to get differnt meanings from the same thing, it became the three-fourish major factions we see today the reverence sort of became lost on me.

Moving right along, I'll just say that one of the reasons I dislike race lifts for the sake of race lifts (rather than casting for ability or some other reason), is because I don't like the implication that these characters' characteristics only matter insofar as the ideological points we can make by adapting them. Especially the idea that it isn't right for a character to be X majority because said group hasn't been persecuted or represented as much as Y minority - that shouldn't just be the main reason characterize are who they are. And on a non-characterization note, while I'm probably in the minority over this I find being presented a character who is X race simply so that the company can have a character who is X race to point to a bit insulting, as well.

However, while I'd rather Marvel adapt minority characters rather than make characters X minority for the sake of it that's seeming less and less likely (and because of how and where they introduced minority major characters, what their film objectives are and what they have access to, they've put themselves in a bind over it), so I'll take what I can get.

I am sorry but I can't see the logic pathway of "Catholics are not as oppressed or misrepresented as other minorities so therefore Daredevil shouldn't be Catholic" as anything other than nonsensical to an amusing degree. It's not like the market's overflowing with Irish-Catholic superheroes (relevant Catholic superheroes, for example, pretty much amount to Nightcrawler, Daredevil and maybe Hellboy).

Daredevil is a character, from pretty much everything I've read of him, strongly footed in being Irish-Catholic. Making him something other than that feels like tossing a monkey wrench in his character for very little reason. He's one of the least characters I'd recommend a Race Lift precisely because of that.

For comparitive purposes it'd be like if Luke Cage was a Neo-Pagan Norweigian in the Defenders tv-series or if Steve Rogers was a muslim-ukranian immigrant in The First Avenger (in a sidenote both sound like cool concepts for new characters, not for adaptations of old ones).

I'll admit characters where religion is a super-huge part of their background are few and far between in general but let's be honest, they've all got Christmas trees up come the season, and we assume they do even when they don't.

Christmas has become somewhat of a secularized holiday. It's hard to avoid the thing.

That last part could go to any wanting to Race Lift just to have diversity.

edited 18th Sep '14 7:55:51 PM by GethKnight

So, is anyone else okay with the idea of adapting out K'un Lun from Danny's backstory, then?

How important to the character is it? Could Iron Fist, as a character, survive if it were cut?

It's obviously a "know it when you see it" kind of thing, but I'd say that with Daredevil, being an Irish Catholic is a big part of his identity- he's deeply linked with the Irish-American Hell's Kitchen neighborhood and just like how the Captain America film is "World War II movie, BUT WITH SUPERHEROES'', Daredevil stories tend to be "story of growing up Irish Catholic and growing up in a high crime neighborhood, BUT WITH SUPERHEROES".

On the other hand, I think a lot of times (i.e. with the Storm siblings and Steven Strange) they were created as white due to a combination of that being the default as well as because of the character's social class, and I don't think that assumption really holds up anymore. I mean yeah, I'd figure due to various social inequalities that most affluent surgeons are probably white, but the idea of a non-white affluent surgeon in no way interferes with my suspension of disbelief.

With Danny, I imagine it being treated as a Noodle Incident, and being something he's mildly embarrassed about bringing up (like have Luke Cage incredulously comment on the fact that Danny is literally Kung-Fu Jesus).

edited 18th Sep '14 8:13:43 PM by Hodor

It's not really important. You could easily have Danny just learn the Iron Fist technique from travelling across the world and studying martial arts in his journeys. Be a lot less problematic than him being the only guy in a city filled with Asian martial artists to earn the technique.

Hasn't Hell's Kitchen been gentrified? I don't think it'd be as crucial to his characterization today, be hard to shoot there now at least.

edited 18th Sep '14 8:25:22 PM by maxwellelvis

While I find any major Race Lifts in general to be both lazy and patronising ("So you, minority, you're not going to get a hero of your own to properly represent you, instead we'll slap an ethnicity into a preexisting one and hope it works out. Have fun."), I would be at least willing to accept a change of ethnicity in the Storm Sibilings of Doctor Strange (in a related note I find Pedro Pascal to be a perfect choice for Doctor Strange). With Daredevil I just see it as outright insanity (akin to making Black Panther white).

I have no particular issue with changing the races of the Storms. ...Plural. I don't know what they're doing with Kate Mara and Michael B. Jordan. Or rather, I know exactly what they're doing (they're adopted; I mean, they've got to be), but the haven't bothered to actually say that. If they wanted to have both Sue and Johnny be black, then more power to them. I like both of the actors individually, but it's pretty obvious they're not siblings.

By the way, the only reason Joaquin Phoenix isn't already Doctor Strange is because he's not comfortable with signing a multi-film contract. He's never done a big budget franchise tentpole before, and he doesn't want to lock himself into it for years if it turns out that he doesn't do well in that environment.

It's not outside of the realm of possibility that they're just brother and sister from a biracial couple. It's unlikely, but it's possible. I've seen similar siblings before.

IIRC, a black actor was cast as Mr. (Dr.?) Storm- So, presumably Sue is the one who was adopted in the film.

Except they are both very obviously not biracial. Kate Mara is basically a ghost.

That's a thing that happens.◊

Except they look alike.

I don't have any issue with them casting colour-blind. In fact, it's kind of cool that they did. But Fantastic Four is already kind of a risk, and I think they would have done better to not alienate their fans by telling them "Hey, we're doing this thing with the Storms..." when the casting was announced.

I think Hell's Kitchen is so ingrained in the Daredevil Mythos that it would be hard to do without it. It's also sufficiently comic booky of a name that it could still exist even if the real Hell's Kitchen were to be the next Disney park or something. Hell, I didn't even know Hell's Kitchen was a real place till relatively recently.

I think it would remind too many people of Gordon Ramsey.

Everyone thinks the Kingpin is Daredevil's greatest nemesis. But it's actually Gordon Ramsey.

Looks like we're gonna meet JARVIS' namesake in Agent Carter.

Yay, Edwin Jarvis!.....who's not being played by Paul Bettany, so okay.

Considering hiw annoyed he got when they asked him to play Vision, it makes sense he wouldnt.

He's very upfront about how he views the MCU as a case of Money, Dear Boy, and I think he's said he's never even watched the Iron Man or Avengers movies. I actually respect his candor.