Marvel Cinematic Universe

Hell, this is actually an area in which Arrow actually is better than Iron Fist, at least in their respective first seasons. We saw what Oliver went through on the island through flashbacks so even if we didn't excuse his actions we understood them. We don't even get that for Danny.

This was actually not my point, I was aiming more in the direction you just took....see we emphasize with Batman because we have the picture of the little boy traumatized by the death of his parents in mind. We emphasis with Matt because we have a whole episode which shows his relationship with his father, so we are ready to forgive him that he risks Foggy's future for his personal hang-ups and in general just doing what he wants with little regard to the people in his life. We don't get that with Danny, because the show never really shows his relationship with his parents, the plane crash is shown so often that even if we had some feeling for it, we have become annoyed by it by the time we see it the third time, and the abuse is barely shown. As a result, it is easy to forget that Danny's odd behaviour has a basis in something, so it is harder to forgive when he becomes annoying. But the problem is not that he displays said behaviour, the problem is that the show doesn't contextualise it enough. Some viewers are apparently able to take what they are told and fill the blanks themselves, and as a result they do like Danny, flaws at all. But most are not. I do think, though, that we shouldn't blame whoever penned Danny's character, but whoever decided to cut the budget of the show so much that it was impossible to show Kun Lun.

To be fair, the first five episodes of Arrow were terrible due to the constant voice over. But yeah, it helped to see him on the island as a constant reminder that his douchyness doesn't come from nowhere.

edited 23rd Sep '17 2:36:56 AM by Swanpride

Possibly, but I'm not only blaming the writing, and at some point the writing, production, and acting of a show are all of one piece. It's not like any of those things exist in a vacuum, and part of the job of creating any artistic work is being able to adapt. The viewer being able to fill in those blanks of Danny's character shouldn't mean giving the show a pass on its flaws. We're talking about something as crucial as the backstory of the title character of your series, here.

And really, how hard is it to find a room with stone walls and set-dress it as a monastery? Or to write a scene where Danny tells the story to someone, to have him relive the moment and react accordingly? Just give the audience something.

edited 23rd Sep '17 7:23:44 AM by Unsung

They say show don't tell but telling is fine sometimes and better than neither

Phew. Haven't been back on the thread in a while, but I'm here because the Comic Expo here in Edmonton just had Anthony Mackie as a guest.

To sum things up:

• Infinity War will end with everyone going to Aruba and drinking Mai-Tais;

• Tom Holland is actually 32 years old;

• And apparently, Chris Evans looks like a Dorito, and Mackie either texted him about it or tweeted it (that one is on the internet, but thanks to our town, it might spread).

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Rules! Peace out!

edited 23rd Sep '17 6:17:23 PM by HandsomeRob

Even Thanos?

Thanos is the guy pouring the drinks to Tony. It's his evil plan: to attack his alcoholism.

In effect, a remake of this scene:

edited 23rd Sep '17 6:34:38 PM by Gaon

Hilariously enough, I actually think he said Thanos would be doing that. I'm not surprised. It makes totally sense.

Is MCU Tony Stark actually an alcoholic? Only time we've seen him having any trouble with alcohol is in Iron Man 2, and that was the result of him slowly dying and deciding to go down in one last blaze of self-indulgent partying.

Nah, MCU Tony had all his negative traits buffed out when he became the Golden Cow and they made him the inventor of everything and turned one of their flagship superheroes into his fuckin' Robin.

Did you just say that MCU Tony has no negative traits? I am laughing so hard in Real Life.

In fairness, Tony had been around the block a few times before his alcoholism got debilitating

And Spider-Man is also explicitly not Tony's Robin, jesus.

Basically, yeah. Alcoholism? What's that? Insufferable God Complex? He's the one who wants people telling him what to do with oversight. Egomania? Reserved for quips. Greed? That's not a thing, either. Womanizing? He's been in a committed relationship for almost the entire filmography.

edited 23rd Sep '17 10:48:21 PM by SonOfSharknado

Then what the hell was Civil War constantly calling him out on shit to the point where it started getting a little overkill?

Iron Man-His own negligence and irresponsibility blinded him to what Stane was doing.

Iron Man 2-Spends most of the movie as a reckless, boozing fool with a death wish, and his own screw-ups nearly end in disaster.

The Avengers-Steve is constantly calling him out on his ego and selfishness.

Iron Man 3-His being a douche to Aldrich Killian is what sets the whole plot in motion. Also he's a douche to that kid a lot of the time as well.

Age of Ultron-He recklessly creates Ultron and tries to hide it from the team, He's called out on it multiple times throughout the film, and he leaves the team at the end.

Civil War-Pepper leaves him because of his inability to stop being Iron Man, a woman calls him out on how he's indirectly responsible for her son's death in AOU, he's constantly having the P**s taking out of him throughout the film (even in moments when he really doesn't deserve it imo). And his inability to forgive Bucky (despite it not being Bucky's fault really) for killing his parents is what finally splits him and Cap completely.

Spider-Man Homecoming-Peter ultimately solves the problem of The Vulture on his own, and declines Tony's offer at the end.

The idea that this guy doesn't have flaws in the MCU is nonsense. Heck he spends like 95% of the time trying to fix the messes that HE CREATED in the first place.

To be fair, the kid is just as much of a douche. They've got this weird mutually-douchey camaraderie.

Yeah, fuck that kid. "Oh, you have PTSD? Lemme just needle the fuck out of ya over it."

Yeah but the kid is well, a kid. It's more expected there. And I do give the film some credit for at least paying that off at the end.

Like Tony's a douche, but he's also capable of realizing when he's been a douche sometimes. And he will at least try and make amends for it and do better.

It's what keeps him sympathetic for most people despite all of his flaws/screw-ups.

x4 Yeah, but he keeps creating messes. Instead of learning from past experience. Kind of like that person that keeps saying they're sorry and then doing it again, instead of learning to not do the thing they had to apologize for.

edited 24th Sep '17 1:04:02 AM by MedusaStone

If anything, Tony's the one character in the MCU who's consistently called out on his screw ups, even things that aren't entirely his fault.

Eh Tony's thing is that he tries to over correct. He realize that he made a mistake in one direction and wants to change. But he goes too far in the other direction.

Also some of these "screw ups" aren't really his fault, or at least not completely. Like Ultron was both him AND Banner, yet the latter gets a free pass for his role basically. And in CW, a lot of the criticisms against him are unfair imo (for example, I've mentioned here multiple times before how much I cant stand the scene where Clint and Scott try and pass the buck for their imprisonment onto Tony, despite it being totally THEIR fault).

And yeah, Tony gets overly-blamed for certain things. By contrast, a lot of the other characters either get free passes for their mistakes, or the films go out of their way to minimize said mistakes.

For example, CW COMPLETELTY ignoring the whole "Wanda helping Ultron, up to and including killing people" thing from AOU. Yeah that little detail is not brought up even ONCE for the entire film. Instead it's "oh poor Wanda, why is everyone picking on her." And my response to that is "she's extremely lucky that she's not in jail for the crap that she pulled last time. You ignoring it movie, doesn't make it any less true.

edited 24th Sep '17 3:00:25 AM by Punisher286

And here we go again...let's just ignore that there is an entire scene in Ultron featuring Wanda going "this is all my fault" and Clint going "quit whining if you want to make up for it go out there and do something about it, otherwise stay where you are and be quiet". And honestly, it would be douchy of the movie if it would constantly call out Wanda because of Ultron, considering that the price she paid for her mistake was her twin brother!

And what of the price everyone else paid because of her mistake? If We're supposed to absolve villains of their mistakes because they lost loved ones, them why not give Zemo a pass.

Let's hope this trend won't continue in the next Avengers films...