Marvel Cinematic Universe

Well, not to get snarky, but when multiple people who have seen it are making the Iron Man comparison, I'm inclined to believe them.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. There are way worse movies to recycle plot elements from. It just lends to the greater point about it being difficult to keep making origin story movies while making sure they're fresh.

To some extent I think Marvel itself even acknowledges this, because in the Captain Marvel article that was linked a few pages back, Feige even said they're trying really hard to come up with an origin movie for Carol that isn't a rehash of the 3 billion superhero origin movies we've gotten since the year 2000.

The main thing with origin stories is that a lot of superhero movies had them since the genre's inception with Superman the Movie, but they started becoming SUPER popular with Batman Begins and now it seems like every superhero movie has to be one.

Batman Begins is also around the time superhero movies stopped being mostly shitty because the creators were putting some effort into actually making sense of what the audience is seeing rather than just throwing vaguely superhero-esque shit at the screen and calling it awesome.

Batman Begins and the Spider-Man movies helped turn the tide from "mostly garbage, occasionally a good one" to "mostly awesome with a few bad eggs". Actually taking the time to explain who the f*ck these people are and why we should care was an important step of that.

edited 25th Oct '16 9:31:45 AM by TobiasDrake

Al that time from Spiderman to the first Iron man(or dark knight trilogy) "Phase 0" because of those reason actually.

There is also the X-Men trilogy.

The Fox-Men verse has got a delightfully accessible premise. "Random people have super powers and deformities. They are a marginalised minority" it's such an accessible premise that it doesn't need an introduction.

Much like Blade.

I have no idea to what this was deliberate in the sense that Stan Lee (?) created Steven Strange to be "Tony Stark with magic" (or Tony Stark to be "Steven Strange with technology"), but I'm not at all surprised that there are similarities between the origin stories of Stark and Strange in the MCU.

The characters have broadly similar origin stories as "rich jerk who gets injured and then becomes a better person at the same time they get superpowers" and the two even look kind of similar (I know Strange was initially drawn as Asian-looking/ was based on Vincent Price but the pool of actors who could play either of them is going to have some overlap).

Assuming we're still talking about Doctor Strange, I feel like I should point out that there are any number of studios that have done or are doing that - and are managing to do it without the whitewashing. And that two nonwhite characters in supporting roles is not exactly "nearly the entire cast."

It's fine to like Doctor Strange, but it's downright absurd to actually give that movie (of all movies) points in the inclusivity department.

Also, it's equally absurd to claim that Disney is incredibly courageous because they're the only ones making new Star Wars movies. Because they own the franchise. They're the only ones who can make new Star Wars movies.

I think they were probably talking about Black Panther, actually.

Ah. Yeah, that would make much more sense. I was reading over the last few pages, and had assumed we were still on Doctor Strange.

More Punisher cast members.

Me Too! and was shaking my head that anyone would offer Doctor Strange as evidence of Marvel's "brave" commitment to diversity.

In any case though, I think Marvel is reasonably brave/creative in terms of the characters they selected to head films, especially in terms of different films evoking different genres. But not so much in terms of diverse casting, particularly in lead roles.

edited 25th Oct '16 12:39:48 PM by Hodor2

No, I was indeed talking about Black Panther...while I am still reserving judgement about the Doctor Strange issue, I would certainly NOT pull it as shining example for diversity in front and behind the scenes. Marvel needed some time to offer the first Po C lead on the big screen (they did it on TV a little bit earlier if you consider Daisy as the sneaky lead of Ao S), but at least they will go all out on it now. Well, in one and a quarter year.

edited 25th Oct '16 12:41:37 PM by Swanpride

The cast of characters for Punisher is not exciting, but Karen Page being a main character means I'll be watching it for her.

I'm still deciding, but Karen is a good reason (and I like Frank, I just don't necessarily want to watch a whole show about the Punisher).

Karen is a main character on the Punisher series? That was confirmed?

I really want to see what they do with Rawlins. An axe-crazy, back-stabbing, potty mouthed, bisexual smug snake who swears a lot (to the point his first name might as well actually be fuckin') and has fingers in just about every pie there is.

I mean, his government links probably give him more story telling potential than Nicky Cavella or Barracuda (who would probably need to be made more palatable anyway) but still... using a Max continuity villain sets out one heck of a stall.

It was confirmed that she has a larger role.

I am still not sold on the concept of the Punisher as lead character. I like him, but as supporting character.

TBF, it was always going to be tricky doing Strange's origins, on multiple levels. And in this case, yeah on the surface he kind of has more than a few similarities to Tony Stark and his origin story, and their characters. And I keep hearing from reviews that this movie doesn't really do that much to try and not have people draw that comparison. And perhaps that's a fundamental potential issue with the story as conceived originally. And there are far worse origin films that you could be similar to than IM. In fact that's one of the better ones to go with if you must. And depending on your own personal POV, it might or might not be a problem.

The bigger issue with origin stories in general, or at least origin films, is that they tend to follow a formula. And once you've seen it enough times, it kind of stops being interesting and becomes "really, we're doing this again, ok whatever."

I'm just waiting for the Punisher show to get here.

x 5 Deborah Ann Woll was at the New York Comic Con, and got introduced on stage as a castmember. That doesn't necessarily mean that she'll be co-lead, but I think it's a decent hint that she'll have more than a cameo.

To a degree, it could even be on purpose. If they are really committed to changing the Avengers roster completely, giving some indication which roles the new members might inhabit could be in their interest. And Cumberbatch is arguably the highest profile actor among the Avenger potentials they have so far, which makes him a rough equivalent to RDJ.

edited 25th Oct '16 2:07:49 PM by hollygoolightly

Huh, interesting. Still not completely sure I'll watch the Punisher series, but that's good to know.

Huh, entertainment weekly calls Doctor Strange "heady"...I guess they are referring to all the explanations the movie should have?

I believe they've directly seen Woll shooting scenes together with Berenthal.

If Namor makes it into the MCU, I'm kind of hoping they distance him to a degree from Aquaman by adapting him to be not some fantastical merperson but more as a Humanoid Abomination from the darkest parts of the ocean who unintentionally helped inspire The Mer Folk myths among humans. Also, his powerset changes depending on the amount of atmospheric pressure - or lack therof - he's under (no matter if it's solid, gaseous, or liquid)

edited 25th Oct '16 4:10:24 PM by nervmeister