Marvel Cinematic Universe

Technically not a director, but the vitrol target of the MCU has become Ike Perlmutter.

He deserves it. He really was not good for the movies. Hopefully someday he'll be extracted from the shows.

I'm excited for a large cast, even in small supporting roles. It will be fun to see all the new talent that's been announced.

edited 25th Jun '16 6:57:18 PM by yellowturtle

Crow: There's a plot?

I would like clarification on a couple things:

"but I don't think Whedon is still quite as hated as Snyder is (who surprisingly has a lot of defenders on Tumblr for some reason, ironically many of them heavily involved in SJ type stuff)"

Why is it ironic that Snyder has liberals defending him? Is he a conservative?

@ dricDePsycho "Singer doesn't have much of a hatedom, to be honest. He's got a lot of people looking at him funny for possible pedophilia and definite creepiness though"

What's the source for this belief?

edited 25th Jun '16 7:26:09 PM by Nikkolas

Singer has been accused of molesting a kid in the past, and he apparently took James Mc Avoy's shaved hair from X-Men Apocalypse and put it in a vault for god knows what reasons. Mc Avoy has actually stated a couple times that Singer is a really strange person.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

I did not know that. What happened, did the charge just go away?

Crow: There's a plot?

I have no idea, to be honest. I just remember seeing Singer's name among many listed as being possible child molesters in Hollywood sometime after the Jimmy Saville bullshit and some rumblings of him being accused of being one on other sites.

The eccentricity stuff is from X-Men Apocalypse's YMMV page. There's a lot of really messed up scenes in the film with Xavier and Apocalypse that some interpreted as being kinda rape-y, and then I found out from the page that Singer decided to take Mc Avoy's hair...

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

The authoritarian strongman undertones of MoS and BvS, Sucker Punch, his comments about only liking comics if they have gratuitous sex or violence, claiming that if he was in charge of Batman Begins Bruce would get Prison Rape'd. Things that attract a lot of criticism on Tumblr for good reason.

Yet a surprising number of fangirls are convinced he has a better grasp on the Big Two than the directors who came before him, or that it deals with the matter of collateral damage better than Civil War (which they apparently consider a racist piece of garbage in comparison), and that all the people mad about these things in BvS are stereotypical "nerds"/"fanboy" elitists (aka strawman stereotypical "male geeks").

The accusations made it as far as national news sites like CNN, which prompted a bunch of the usual victim-blaming nonsense ("98% of rape claims are false, the stupid slut was probably faking it so he can ruin a good man with his greed" type comments).

Personally I didn't interpret those scenes as having any sexual undertones whatsoever, but I can see how someone could come to that conclusion. My friend definitely did. It's kind of Fridge Horror though if Singer really did have those kinds of intentions towards him I doubt he'd broadcast it to the world to see via that movie.

edited 25th Jun '16 8:15:27 PM by AlleyOop

Why is Civil War seen as racist?

Interesting info, though. I really want to avoid the whole "SJW" thing though because it's thoroughly unpleasant and stupid. I was trying to talk about why I think a video game called Bayonetta is sexist elsewhere and got repeatedly branded as an "SJW cuck" for my troubles. I'm unsure of how cuckolding has anything to do with my views on a video game but apparently it's a very common slur nowadays, to the extent it's censored on another board I frequent.

Long story short: The Internet is a dumb place. News at 11.

I'm intrigued to see if I'll get any of these "authoritarian undertones", though. I've heard Snyder's Superman films are very Deconstructionist and combined with the authoritarian claims, it makes me think of Red Son in a way.

edited 25th Jun '16 8:28:10 PM by Nikkolas

Something about killing black people and how it's used to make white people sad.

My various fanfics.

I believe the complaint is specifically that there are some randian undertones in his work.

He's also directing an adaptation of The Fountainhead so...

Yeah but isn't Rand Objectivism basically Libertarianism? That's the exact opposite of authoritarianism.

And hey, Verhoeven directed Starship Troopers. Look how that turned out. Maybe Snyder has it in his head to do something like that.

No no no no no, Tim Rothman did not direct Deadpool. Tom Rothman used to be the CEO of Fox and was responsible for the abomination that was "Deadpool" in X-Men Origins: Wolverine and then afterwards, declared that he didn't like Deadpool and that he wasn't greenlighting any Deadpool movies.

Deadpool was directed by Tim Miller and they were finally able to do it after Rothman left Fox and joined with Sony (so he is now in charge of Spider-Man).

Thankfully, the movie Civil War didn't kill any black people. Sure, it crippled Rhodey, but it didn't kill him. (Also, there is no way that the movie is racist — it introduced one of the most badass versions of T'Challa ever. And with the inclusion of Black Panther, the movie had three black superhero characters, more than any other MCU movie.)

edited 25th Jun '16 9:09:03 PM by alliterator

Ah, got the two mixed up, thanks for that.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

The "racist" part comes from the dead black kid that was used to make Tony sad, and the people who die in Rwanda.

edited 25th Jun '16 9:12:37 PM by SonOfSharknado

My various fanfics.

That still doesn't make it racist.

I'm not saying it does.

My various fanfics.

Lagos, Nigeria. Not Rwanda. But yeah that's what they're arguing. Also the movie's irritating lack of reference to the Hulk's rampage in South Africa, which yes, is a problem that causes a lot of Fridge Logic among others. And may be motivated by some form of subconscious "well brown people die all the time, big whup, call me when it happens in a 'civilized' country". But that line of criticism loses its validity when it's presented in the form of "the creators literally hate black people so much they don't see it as a tragedy for them to die", considering how the same film treats the death of the Wakandan diplomats and T'Chaka.

Anyway, I don't consider Rhodey's crippling a form of fridging, as Rhodey retained agency during and after it. The last scene focused as much on how it affected Rhodey and his reaction to it as it did on Tony. It wasn't used for cheap shock to fuel Tony's angst. But quite a few people have argued that Civil War fridged Peggy too because it made Steve feel sad.

edited 25th Jun '16 10:09:55 PM by AlleyOop

Wow, I've never even heard of that. I mean... people die when they're old. Was she supposed to live forever?

My various fanfics.

I'm all for calling out fridging when it happens, but, uh, an old lady dying of old age isn't exactly fridging.

I mean, I wish they showed her more, but I understand why they didn't.

Say that to 616!Aunt May.

edited 25th Jun '16 11:04:21 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username

Aunt May's eternal life is basically two parts grandfather clause, and one part writers being terrified of change and things being different from when they were children. So they don't want to kill Aunt May because she was always around in the comics they read as a kid, and if she's not around anymore, they're not kids anymore. And if someone kills her or kills Steve Rogers or gives Rogue control of her powers or makes Dick Grayson Batman, the next writer will just change it all back.

The comics industry is a thousand manchildren standing on a roof, shaking their fists and screaming "I'M NOT OLD! I'M NOT OLD!"

Sorry.

Don't know where that came from.

My various fanfics.

I wish I could. I mean, I wish Marvel had to balls to actually kill off Aunt May and allow Peter and MJ to stay married and have a kid. But the last time they killed off Aunt May, it turned out it was a body double hired by the Green Goblin and then the time after that, Peter traded his marriage for her life, so, uh, she's probably immortal right now.

Movie Aunt May probably has a painting in her attic and the painting gets old while she gets younger and younger.

I don't think that CW is racist either, but I think that any arguments to that regard come down to, a bunch of Black people getting killed to motivate a cast of, lets face, mostly White characters. A black kid getting fridged (offscreen) just to motivate Tony, and then in both cases those deaths are kind of just forgotten about once the main plot gets going. The fates of certain characters, and Nick Fury being absent with no onscreen explanation whatsoever despite it making all the sense in the world that he'd be there given his previous character and the ending of AOU (as much as I really like the Russo's, they've done this TWICE now in two movies). Also the Hulk rampaging through South Africa not being mentioned at all (which given that Scarlet Witch and how she's treated is a major factor in this film, you'd think that that'd have come up at SOME point in the film, or her helping/working with Ultron in-general, but it doesn't), etc.

So I can kind of sort of see why some people might have issues with the film in that regard. But I still wouldn't call it "racist" overall.

In time, Perlmutter's probably going to end up being remembered as the Eddie Selzer of superhero/comic book movies - a nuisance and a hindrance, and ultimately an inspiration: as he so well exemplified the outlook and approach one shouldn't have in a genre and time like this.

edited 25th Jun '16 11:21:41 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I do think parts of the fandom are a little too eager to turn him into a scapegoat for every single bad decision Marvel Studios made in the first two phases. Chances are Feige is to blame for at least some of the poorer storytelling elements. Nobody is perfect.