Rework or removal of a vague trope: Playful Dolphin

I can do a few, but my final for school is due the 12th.

We need an authoritative descision on what to do with the Dolphins, Dolphins Everywhere name. Do we need a crowner for that?

In the mean time I've removed Dolphins, Dolphins Everywhere from the indexes and changed the description to something pointing to the new tropes.

PS: Please do not delete any of the examples on the Dolphins, Dolphins Everywhere until they have been moved to the correct trope.

edited 2nd Dec '11 1:57:44 PM by Auxdarastrix

What's crosswicking? Or rather what specifically still needs doing here, besides dealing with the remaining page?

Crosswicking, from my understanding of it, basically involves finding the pages of whichever of the works mentioned have a page here, and copying work X's entry on the trope page to the trope list of work X's page. (And maybe to work X's characters page as well, though I am not sure whether these tropes should be mentioned on characters pages or not.)

I've taken care of the examples on the old page. There were only tiny number of dolphin motif ones, so I just sent those to Animal Motif.

Question to everyone, Hidden Faced Matt told me to bring it to this thread.

Can examples on a symbolic level work for Heroic Dolphin? See that example copied straight from the former Dolphins, Dolphins Everywhere page:

• In Mitsumete Knight, the Kingdom the Asian (aka the main protagonist) fights for as a mercenary, is named "Dolphan'', and its crest is a blue dolphin. This game however is a major subversion of the usual "dolphin = good" meaning of the trope, as, even though Dolphan is the country you're fighting for and is code-coloured in blue (in contrast with the opposing country, the Dukedom of Procchia and its mercenary army Valpha-Valaharian's red-coloured crest and soldiers), the Valpha-Valaharian have legitimate reasons of attacking Dolphan and has sympathetic characters, while Dolphan has its core mostly rotten because of its Deadly Decadent Court, which contains unreedeemable Jerkasses and Complete Monsters.

I have mixed feelings about that. If there were more straight examples of a dolphins being used as a symbol for goodness, maybe, but I'm hesitant to list just a single subversion.

Animal Motifs and Species-Coded for Your Convenience also seem to come into play in the idea of a symbolic associations.

What does everyone else think?

My understanding is that it's only a subversion if it sets up what looks like a strait trope and then bucks the audience expections. And I think aversions are only worth listing if they occur in situations where you would expect the strait trope to show up.

So that doesn't seem like worthwhile example to me.

I've been trying to put together a crowner vote on what to do with the Dolphins, Dolphins Everywhere page now that we have the new tropes, but there seem to be some technical difficulties (or I'm doing something wrong). In the mean time, I've changed the page type into an index and indexed the trope list. I'm starting to be kinda partial to that solution, and I think it even works with the current name. This way we can preserve the old picture, quote, quotes page, and part of the description (I hate completely scrapping other's work unless it is causing a real problem or violating rules), while still not having an overly generic trope with a misleading name.

Also, since it isn't a Everything's Better With X trope title and is no longer on that index, we don't have to worry about the implications of that naming convention. We can just treat the title as referring multiple dolphin tropes.

edited 3rd Dec '11 5:25:26 PM by Auxdarastrix

New blank page action crowner hooked. For future reference, if there is an already-existing crowner for a page and you want to start a blank one, then you can just slap a "2" on the end.

Cetaceans aren't exclusively dolphins, though, whales can be cetaceans too. (Actually, so can porpoises, according to Wikipedia.)

Whales, dolphins, orcas, narwhals, belugas, beaked whales, river dolphins, and porpoises are all cetaceans.

Adding the option to turn it into a redirect for a Cetacean Tropes Index that does not use Dolphins, Dolphins Everywhere as the primary name.

edited 4th Dec '11 4:41:25 AM by Auxdarastrix

I checked a few random example entries of Heroic Dolphin, Playful Dolphin, and Sapient Cetaceans each, and they still seem not to have been crosswicked. I'll get on it, then.

And... tropes crosswicked.

You might have noticed this took a few days. This is because after I finished the first step (searching all non-potholed examples to see if they had works pages on this site to pothole to) I decided to take a break; and then forgot to do the crosswicking itself until today. In any case, it's done now.

Also, I noticed that Friendly Dolphin is a redirect for Playful Dolphin. This is a bit troubling, as playfulness and friendliness aren't necessarily the same thing. A bit of clarification as to what exactly the trope is about, and perhaps discussion of which is the more fitting title, might be worthwhile.

edited 20th Dec '11 9:49:37 AM by HiddenFacedMatt

Well? Should we address the playful vs. friendly thing in this thread, or save it for another thread?

Here. Avoids another backlog.

Bump...

Attach the thread to Friendly Dolphin now?

The basic idea of Playful Dolphin is dolphins being both friendly to and playful with humans. The trope is flexible to accommodate both adjectives.

"dolphins are portrayed as playful creatures, who will easily befriend humans"

One can be playful without being friendly, and one can be friendly without being playful. The question is whether or not that is enough to justify further splitting the trope; I can imagine having two separate things under the same trope has a lot of potential for confusion.

But yeah, have this thread link to Playful Dolphin if we can. (Preferably that instead of its redirects, so that the trope will in turn link to this thread.)

Done. You might want to holler for a mod to rename the thread and remove that old crowner.

Mod holler sent.

EDITED IN: Forgot to mention the crowner thing. Should I send another mod holler, or will they find your post easily enough?

edited 30th Dec '11 11:09:41 AM by HiddenFacedMatt

You want me to remove this crowner, correct?

Well that page action's already been taken, right?

Alright, just making sure.