When have you Rooted For the Empire?

I got the impression that they had tried every civil option before the movie started, and the navi made it clear that it wasn't working, so violence was the only thing left that could work. Still, Parker and Quaritch never wanted to commit genocide, even during their confrontations with the navi they tried to keep hostile casualties to a minnimum (using tear gas first, aiming to kill the mother tree so they become demoralised etc) they could have been a LOT more ruthless than they were

Which I think makes them weaker characters.

huh? whadya mean?

They were being set up as utterly ruthless evil bastards. Then they go and ignore possible solutions so the good guys can win. That's Idiot Ball right there.

Not sure that's true either way. I think the problem was genocide was impractical; they literally didn't have enough bullets to get it done.

Now I think the end scene was somewhat crap and honestly they should have been able to shoot everything to bits with what they had, but after that they would have been as close to out of ammo as makes no difference if anyone else came along.

See, you're thinking I mean "with bullets", when I'm thinking "with orbital bombardment". You just drop a rock on their home, and boom crater where their houses were.

But they didn't WANT TO KILL THEM ALL. Genocide to another planet's indiginous species would be a PR nightmare. and they aren't monsters who wanna mercilessly kill everyone, their businessman for crying out loud

edited 7th Aug '11 2:11:57 PM by gingerninja666

Though a Colony Drop might have been the smarter option once they'd decided to kill Eywa. At that point, all worries about collateral damage had gone completely out the window.

I root for the drug dealers in The Wire. But I also root for the cops. And Bubbles. And Omar.

Man, that show is some commplex shit, yo.

Deboss: you're assuming they had the means to hand for a Colony Drop. They had a spaceship, but we don't know it was actually present at that time, or that it could do what you're asking it to do. There's no reason to believe either.

A Colony Drop or Nuke 'em is almost certainly in the works after the end of the movie, but there's no evidence it was an option during them movie.

edited 7th Aug '11 2:16:29 PM by Night

We never even see a mention of it. We see "oh, we're going to fly our only shuttle incredibly slowly and push a bunch of explosives out of the back" when the same could be done by dive bombing the area and dumping rocks out of the back.

I still find it odd that Quaritch considered it "humane" to gas the Na'vi. I recall finding the scene where they were actually being gassed to be one of the most disturbing movie scenes I've ever watched.

I rooted for the empire when I heard the Imperial March. Cool tune.

I almost always root for the Empire, if the Imperials are interesting, dramatic, and brilliant enough, or if all the "heroes" are boring, predictable Knights In Shining Armor.

In a straight or fairly-straight good versus evil situation, I never root for the "empire" unless the good guys are truly unlikeable - "boring" alone isn't going to cut it. However, I'll definitely root for cool and interesting villains in grayer conflicts, especially if they're up against GRIMDARK antihero types.

I tend to root for the goodies, although that doesn't necesarily mean I like (in a very specific way) them more.

Although, I do have a soft spot for the antagonists of people who like nature. The natural order should never ever be trusted, it's got too many wasps in it.

Yet another one rooting for Avatar.

As a rule of thumb, if your story hinges around the Harmony Versus Discipline concept and you try to paint the Harmony side as the good guys, I'm likely to start Rooting for the Empire unless the Discipline side insists on being absolutely horrible.

edited 13th Nov '11 4:15:33 AM by TibetanFox

I've got a new example, having read the first volume of Angel Sanctuary (dunno if it changes in later volumes or not). I really sympathised with Ruri, mainly because the story treats her like crap. She's called "ugly" to her face (of course, this being manga, the only way we can tell she's unattractive is that she has short hair and glasses), and then she suffers a pretty horrible injury because Setsuna chooses to protect his sister Sara rather than her from the falling glass. Fair enough, he could only protect one, so I can't fault him for choosing to save his sister rather than an almost-stranger... but then he spends more than a page comforting Sara for her slight scratches while Ruri is lying bleeding and blinded on the floor. Is there any wonder she wants revenge after that?

The whole incident just made me sympathise with her and dislike Setsuna and Sara: Sara is pretty bland, and Setsuna is a Jerkass to everyone he meets, and a pervert to boot. I think this is the first time that I've liked a villain more than the heroes.

I'm going to have to use that as a quote sometime.

Go, my child, and spread my words of wisdom to the harsh bitter world.

Just remember, as the prophecies say, to pack an extra pair of undies at all times.

I'll admit, I sometimes root for Doctor Doom when, Depending on the Writer, he's the noblest of a Noble Demon. It doesn't help that the only member of the Fantastic Four that I legitimately like is The Thing.

I also have a tendency to start rooting for the bad guys when the good guys are just remarkably dumb. Although it's not so much rooting for the bad guys to win as me rooting for the chance to give out a Darwin Award.

Sorry for bumping the thread, but this is a trope is often held deep in my heart.

I think it occurs to commonly for me, in fact pretty much any villain that is harmless to the point of not challenging the heroes tends to get my vote. I find a hero needs pathos and hardship to be rootable, it doesn't help so many medias put more heart and charm into the villains than them.

Looney Tunes does this a lot, though granted for examples like Wile E Coyote it's rather deliberate.

The Dreamstone is also this big time. Zordrak was pure evil, yes, but his minions the Urpneys were extremely complex and sympathetic characters, taking constant torture from both sides of the war in their pitiful efforts. Not to mention they supplied nearly all the humor and personality to the show compared to the sickly sweet Land Of Dreams. The show thrived on Good Is Boring.

While I hardly hate Sonic, there are a fair few times I just can't root against Dr Eggman, especially in Sonic X.

edited 9th Jul '12 6:25:01 PM by Psi001

I don't think Ladd counts as a bad guy in that context. Or rather, Clair doesn't count as a good guy. They're both pretty similar, really.

Slizard and Dallas felt like the only real villains in the series, and neither of them were either sympathetic or cool (Smug Snake), so it's hard to imagine they have much of a fandom.

I'll probably keep rooting for Loki no matter what that guy does. He's a very weird mixture of absolutely heinous and incredibly misunderstood which makes him simultaneously a very nasty villain and a Woobie who really needs a hug. Or family therapy. Loki would benefit a lot from family therapy.

Same here, although in my case it's more like Romanticism Versus Enlightenment.

Incidentally, I've been interested in a while as to the existence of this sort of thing. It sort of feels like there's a growing gap between certain writers and their audience here.

edited 10th Jul '12 4:10:58 PM by nrjxll