Conspiracy theories (meta)

Amusingly ironic when you consider the types who blame the Illuminati.

Definately.

I wonder if some Conspiracy Theorists actually want the Conspiracies to exist so that they can join them? After all, it will make them feel special and that they are doing something important, instead of doing not much at all?

Probably not - they'd want to create their own cabal to escape from the sheeple, after all

Make their own Conspiracy?

Flight 007 was not warned of the deviation from its flight path. It was misled from its original route deliberately, to intrude on Soviet airspace. Undoubtedly air traffic control had been infiltrated or bribed.

So what now, having a political opinion you dislike is considered a symptom of mental illness? Very Orwellian, to consider certain political views a thoughtcrime.

I do not agree with many of Larry McDonald's political stances, nor do I believe he was a saint, but he was right on the money with his suspicions of a New World Order.

Again, stop with the psychological profiling. You can't come up with a solid argument against many of these theories so you're turning to social deconstruction.

edited 19th Jul '11 5:35:50 AM by Shichibukai

You cannot come up with an argument against a conspiracy theory because they are unfalsifiable. And circular, most of the time. And nonsensical. So the profiling is indeed the only interesting stuff about them.

@Shichi: Give us a clear and specific account of what would falsify your theory.

Then again, the main reason I don't entirely trust Conspiracy Theories is that Humans Are Flawed; the people within the NWO-associated groups are people with their own views — I doubt they all agree, and that might not even be the point — a giant talking shop, where little gets done, perhaps?

Sure, Conspiracies have occurred (look at the Manhattan Project and Area51, for instance), but that's down to data control, on the whole, and a need. But in particular, my problem with the New World Order-esque theories is that it is impossible — can it be done, before the bodies themselves slide into irrelevence and end up being an a group of arguing old men that do nothing at all?

It might be a conspiracy, and the plans might exist — it doesn't mean it will succeed — probably quite the opposite, in fact.

edited 19th Jul '11 7:53:59 AM by Greenmantle

If three people conspire to steal a huge sum of money, chances are one will kill or betray the others.

If ten people conspire to organize a surprise party for a friend, chances are the friend will find out somehow.

If twelve people conspire to bring about the kingdom of god, they will turn on the thirteenth as soon as he doesn't watch his back.

Scientology is unable to hold control over its information, despite being a strictly controlled hierarchical group. The crimes of priests leak out despite all the church's best efforts.

And yet, somehow, some people manage to believe that a few thousand people inside and outside the US conspired to drive those planes into those buildings. Or that an ancient conspiracy puts weird signs into dollar bills (to achieve what, exactly?). Or are associated with a prime number (huh?).

Somewhere, there will always be a whistle-blower. Just imagine how much money you could earn if you could really offer solid proof for "9/11 truth" or aliens at area 51.

In short, conspiracies may work to a fairly limited degree, if the stakes aren't too high. But in general, I rather believe that the most harm is done by mundane crimes that aren't even recognized as such by the perpetrators - such as the very human impulse to rather work with someone you trust and have worked with before, which inevitably leads to corruption and nepotism. It's a free lunch here, a holiday at a fancy resort there, and a handshake and a contract in the aftermath. And boom, a million dollars are going down the drain (instead of feeding poor children in africa).

True, true. The thing is, from the outside that can look like an Malevolent Conspiracy, from which Conspiracy Theories begin, and then — Bang! We have the New World Order Conspiracy Theory. But yes, it does happen and there are some dodgy connections between people, but does it eventually equal a Globe-Spanning Conspiracy?

Unlikely, but possible.

And that's the thing.

It's not impossible.*

Mostly everyone here has said it, and said far better than I ever will. That's usually the case. The main problem with NWO type conspiracies boil down to Humans Are Flawed. Even with perfect information, we don't always make the best judgements, we can be petty and stubborn, we tend to look for ourselves first. Hell, humans in general are not all that good with abstract concepts as a whole. Sure we're better than pretty much every other species, but only in the "Thinnest kid at fat camp sense". I have a hard time believing that anyone would be able to be able to predict the outcome of every plan they make so perfectly that they could keep effective unofficial control over the world for very long. Even if you assume their aliens of some sort, they'd still be flawed, because they wouldn't have the ability to respond perfectly with every event. I'm fairly certain the only reason we call God perfect is that none of us have ever actually met the guy.

Repeating that, that includes the people "involved" in the New World Order conspiracies — true or not, they are just likely to get it wrong eventually, even when playing Xanatos Speed Chess.

Indeed, I got the feeling that when the Financial Crisis was in full collapse back in 2008, if there was a New World Order, they'd lost control over the situation...

edited 19th Jul '11 9:32:16 AM by Greenmantle

Nonsense, the recession is going just as planned.

My currently favourite conspiracy theory is this one, quoting from Wikipedia:

I mean, if I was a member of NWO, or a writer of conspiracy thrillers, I'd be pissed like hell that I wasn't the first to get that idea.

So this was "planned from antiquity". Wouldn't it have been simpler just to skip all the other steps and keep the world enslaved? Or did these conspirators regard the Roman Empire as just not oppressive enough for their tastes?

edited 19th Jul '11 11:29:42 AM by captainbrass2

It's clearly a conspiracy by the 12 Olympians to reassert their authority over those hubristic humans.

@brass: yep, that's the flaw I see in that. Were I writin' this, I'd have started in XVIII Century - with Illuminati, they make every conspiracy story better. Or perhaps even later, when becoming a feudal overlord finally couldn't have been done by just earning the trust of local big guy.

Yes you can. They can be disproven with reason and evidence against key allegations. For instance, the memoirs of David Rockefeller contain an admission of a conspiracy to create a New World Order.

How can that be possibly taken out of context?

I'm sure I will be accused of misinterpreting their comments. Of more Cognitive Bias perhaps. But is this statement really deception? I have not yet had a solid refutal of such quotes.

Evidence of elite blueprints for a One World Government is more obvious and in the open than people think.

edited 19th Jul '11 12:43:49 PM by Shichibukai

Rockefeller's wording seems calculated for shock value.

Kissinger simply never said that.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Kissinger#Misattributed

I for one welcome our new United Nations overlords.

I'm more inclined to believe that there are aliens at Roswell than to believe that the UN could agree on anything long enough to take over the world.

Don't conflate long-term goals, presumably to be attained by legal means, with conspiracies.

edited 19th Jul '11 12:45:46 PM by silver2195

People don't get that the UN is for the most part not this big self-sufficient independent entity. It's basically a forum where all the leaders of the nations of the world come to swear at each-other and occasionally do something productive. Kind of like an internet forum.

Hence it was probably destroyed. Oh, I recognise that as a form of cognitive bias. I believe that such evidence is quickly edited out of the public consciousness, minitruth style.

It's easy to use "legal" means when you make the laws.

I don't think it's an independent, self-sufficient entity for a second. It's dominated by illuminati interests, who use it as a proxy for aggressive globalisation and international social engineering.

edited 19th Jul '11 1:00:09 PM by Shichibukai

Yeah, it's not like people ever make up quotes.