The General US Politics Thread

Trump is actually notably dishonest even by the standards of politicians.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"

sgamer: There is the issue of more practical issues of voting (e.g., the fact that voting is on a Tuesday means most eligible voters work when the polls are open, the size of the election meaning it's subject to the paradox of voting, the chronic reports of voter irregularities seemingly every which where, etc.).

Higher voter turnout generally helps the Democrats insofar as their voter base tends to be the ones who physically vote less frequently for whatever reason.

Okay, you know what? Even if they were equally dishonest, Trump still wants to imprison or ban Muslims and Mexicans.

That alone should be reason enough to vote against him.

That's basically what I said, the overall attendance at the buffet is more vital than a few people who were never going to attend anyway because they dislike refried beans (I'll try and stop running this metaphor into the ground now...)

Honestly it was the "we have to go after terrorists families" that put me over the top

edited 4th May '16 10:20:58 AM by sgamer82

False statements by Clinton.Trump. Trump is especially notable because of the sheer number of pants on fire Blatant Lies he drops.

Their respective truth ratings: Trump, Clinton, Sanders.

Sanders actually says quite a lot of inaccurate things. But no pants on fire. Unlike Clinton.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

He lost me completely at "build a wall and deport all the Hispanics illegal immigrants" but I decided that he was totally dangerous starting with the "ban all Muslims" thing.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison

Politifact deemed Trump's entire campaign the biggest lie of 2015

And what of the people who just don't vote at all?

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.

"We'll get the film maker responsible for that video", when she said she hadn't been subpoenaed over the private e-mail server, when she said she never sent classified information through the private e-mail server, when she lied to a coal miner the other day about not wanting to shut down the coal industry, when she said she landed under sniper fire in Bosnia (the video showed her walking calmly across the tarmac), the whole Clinton Foundation money-laundering operation, when she said she and Bill were poor after leaving the presidency, lies about Travelgate, lies about how she made a 10,000% profit in cattle futures by simply reading the Wall Street Journal, her cover-up of Vincent Foster's suicide - which was probably connected to the S&L scandal, etc.

There's a lot to choose from.

Then, when they complain about a policy they don't like, they can be told, accurately, that they gave up their right to have a say.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I remember a quote I originally heard from Jesse Ventura "the only wasted vote is the one that's never cast."

I won't quibble with someone voting for a candidate with no chance if that's who they believe in, and I've already said my piece on "not voting x is a vote for y".

edited 4th May '16 10:29:29 AM by sgamer82

It sure is. It's also less than Trump has lied about.

And she's not promising to start tracking Muslims in a database and banning them from entering the country. Or to empower the ICE to knock on doors searching for Mexicans like they're the goddamn Gestapo.

Oh really when?

So, as said, we already agree that neither one is honest.

Their level of dishonesty in and of itself is probably enough for me to want to vote for neither one. But then you can start going into their political positions and find many more reasons to accept neither.

edited 4th May '16 10:33:22 AM by Bense

It honestly seems to me that Sanders is the only relatively squeaky clean candidate here.

Our choices in that field are less than ideal: if we insist on perfect honesty in a politician, we get squat. If the honesty card matters that much, why aren't you supporting Sanders?

edited 4th May '16 10:33:13 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Yeah but come on, Trump is like the King of Ooo and Hillary is like Princess Bubblegum. Sure, they both are dickish, but one is much more so than the other.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Personally, I don't care if Hillary has murdered dozens of people. She's not going to start ordering the military to deport or put into camps millions of people....

And again, you're deliberately being dishonest if you pretend that the severity and frequency of their lies is even remotely comparable.

And even if they are Trump is pulling race based laws and doctrines right from Hitler's playbook. There's no way the two can be compared unless you're deliberately ignoring the facts and wrapping yourself in a narrative that has no basis in reality.

Oh really when?

When has Trump lied to cover up a felony he personally committed?

When has Clinton promised to stop anyone of Mexican ethnicity from sending money out of the country? Or promised to lock Syrians in internment camps?

Why do you keep avoiding the topic of Trump's bigotry and his massive levels of support from the Klan and other neo nazi groups?

And more importantly, why is that not instantly a disqualifer for you and why are you not motivated to do everything you can to stop him after knowing that?

You've got the opportunity to try and stop a man like that from gaining power and you make the deliberate choice to sit on your ass and not take it. That's passively accepting his ideology. That's saying you're perfectly content with armed men forcing people from their homes and put into camps based on their ethnicity in America.

edited 4th May '16 10:40:26 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?

I think you just Tempted Fate, there, bense

edited 4th May '16 10:37:05 AM by sgamer82

The Trump University, maybe? And that Questionable Consent episode which if memory serves was claimed by his former wife?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I'm not saying he hasn't, just saying I'm not personally aware of such a lie.

Bense, why are you so hung up on honesty? There is not a single honest politician in this country. Even Sanders has probably lied in the past.

What does matter is that Trump wants to start internment camps, kill innocents in a warzone, and tells his people to hurt protesters.

Hillary hasnt done any of that.

Those are disqualifiers for me (though I'm not sure you have your facts entirely straight there), and I am motivated to do everything I can to stop Trump, except to vote for someone who is horrible for entirely different reasons.