Europe Through Europes Eyes!

And I'm sure an America Through Americas Eyes thread will spring up soon enough.

That said, Europe is... not exactly one entity, and so different nations within it are bound to have their own views. So... here's mine.

Britain: Sort of between America and Europe in terms of the socialism/capitalism split the whole western/westernized world has going on right now, which could explain the whole With Europe But Not Of It stuff. You will still find plenty of people who think joining the EU was a bad idea, and who would rather keep closer ties with America, looser ties but with everyone, or even a few hopefuls who would like to see a rejuvenated Commonwealth. Keeps having parts of it try to split off from the rest, Scotland being the most likely to go next. Has responded with devolving most of its central powers down to other constituent nations; most Brits feel this to have worked well, though many on both sides are annoyed at Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish M Ps having undue influence over English domestic affairs. Has a very unhealthy diet and some serious crime issues. Does things better than the PIIGS but not as good as the other western and northern nations (I'd say we're about par with France, but Germany and Scandinavia make us look plain inefficient. Also, we're barely ahead of Italy in GDP.)

It could be said we're the "all-rounder" in Europe. Certainly many Brits would see themselves as that. Also, we had an empire, but no one really thinks about that too seriously; that said you will find a few dreamers who would like to see a stronger commonwealth.

France: That nation who used to steal our lunch money, though we sorta gave them a Freudian Excuse with the whole invading them and trying to steal their throne for a hundred years thing. (Sorry about that.) Known for their citizens apparently God-like ability to eat seemingly horrifically unhealthy things and still stay fit and healthy. Also known for a rather paradoxical situation where their populace are primarily liberal, and yet their government staunch conservative. They also had that guy who managed to talk Russia out of annexing Georgia... I think.

Oh, and YOU STOPPED US JOINING THE UNION! YOU BASTARDS! Well, those of us who don't think that joining the Union was a mis-step in the first place...

Ireland: Badly mistreated while a part of the UK, and its safe to say both nations still need a bit of time to cool off from each other after, you know, the whole centuries of oppression thing. Got way too caught up in the housing boom; now paying the price. How the whole independence thing is viewed depends entirely on who you ask; but most Brits would probably agree that the current set up is for the best. Despite the tensions, we're still their biggest trade partners, so settling down into a US-style "friendly rivalry" seems likely.

Germany: Widely regarded as the continents more competent big brother, one that managed to keep hold of an industrial base (which we're totally not mad with envy of.) Generally known also for their brilliant alcohol and sausage. Also known for their pacifism. Has a conservative government with a mixed record so far. Has a major party with Christian in its name. Recently acquiring ire over their sudden shift in policy away from pro-immigration and for their stubborn refusal to get involved in Libya, or at least acknowledge the Libyan revolution.

Also known for the Nazis... but as far as most Brits are concerned thats way back in the past now. Most Brits at least have the decency to look shamedfaced over the whole "still had to pay the reparations" thing.

Poland: Frustratingly for onlookers, known for that land where the guys who "terk are jerbs" come from, even though the current economic climate means they're generally going home again. Widely regarded as the E Us biggest success story; less well knwon for their cultural sector. (They got an award for it or something recently.)

Scandinavia: Socialist paradise, or, in the case of Norway, socialist paradise with oil. We go green with envy over their education service in the same way we go green with envy over Germanys industrial base. Known for being far, far colder than it actually is.

Iceland: While we're on the subject of the northern part. Nasty little frozen country which rammed our warships for fishing space... said fishing space admittedly being right off their coastline and vital for them... more contested is the fact they lost our money with their banks... and refused to pay it back.

Yeah, we're not on the best of terms, historically or recently... and cap your bloody volcanoes, we want to be able to fly this week! All that said, Iceland isn't exactly on the national conscious, they rather tend to piss us off at inopportune moments than anything else.

Spain: About time we got onto the southern states. Part of the PIIGS. Known for being a great place to party. Also known for getting pissed off at the behaviour of drunken British tourists, and not undeservedly so. Also known for its latest financial woes. And then there's that matter of that tiny crop of land on their south coast. Can't see why, its not like they border it or... OH...

Italy: Known primarily for its basket case government and corruption.

No wait, scratch that.

Known primarily for its awesome soccer teams. After that its their corrupt government and general corruption. Seen as having a somewhat shaky economy right now. Prime Minister is a dick, president is unheard of. On the plus side, has awesome, awesome food.

Greece: Mainly known for a) having serious debt problems and b) for its population that won't seem to do anything about it. Few Brits have actually put more thought into it than that. One of the PIIGS,and the first one you think of these days.

Malta: Tiny little nation off the coast of Sicily. Not mentioned much these days, but when it is, its generally to acknowledge their collective Badass status in surviving what essentially amounts to a Nazi siege during World War II. The entire island got the George Cross.

The Balkans: That place where WW 1 kicked off. Also a place where everyone wants to kill everyone else (though everyone knows that is also a massive oversimplification and not accurate anyway. We are talking in broad stereotypes here.) Still regarded by some people as a powderkeg waiting to go off. Kosovo recently caught the public eye by declaring independence and getting recognition as such. Half the questions regarding expanding the EU spark off from here. The other half come regarding Turkeys (still) pending membership.

Eastern Europe: Worth splitting Poland off of because Poland generally gets more attention. Hungary isn't thought about that much. Romania tends to get a lot of flak because of prejudices against the Romani immigrants who seem to become beggars in large numbers and have a reputation as thieves. There's been a number of occasions where I've angrily got involved on the opposing side of an anti-Romani argument.

Romania is also, rightly, associated with child exploitation and human rights problems, which raises some legitimate questions about their place in the union. They do seem to be working on it; the fact Romania is steadily becoming wealthier and more organised is helping. Unfortunately a lot of distrust remains however.

As for the Balts... they're mostly known for being, well... tiny. Also known by some to have been, along with Poland, very much EU success stories.

Turkey: No summary of inter-EU relations and stereotypes would be complete without Turkey, even though they aren't part of the EU. Once a great power, Turkey is now mostly known for being the Only Sane Man of the middle east, and for its efforts to get into the EU. Proponents generally put forward the usual argument of Turkey joining the EU would benefit both in the long run as Turkey gets access to the EU market and the EU gets access to Turkeys not-inconsiderable potential economic strength. The main blockade is generally acknowledged as being their human rights record towards minorities, and also in the outlying regions of Turkey where draconian religious laws are practiced above the secular centres laws. More xenophobic (and outright ignorant) Brits also worry about extremists simply being able to trek in through the E Us open borders to spread whatever merry hell they like. More level-headed Brits point out that we've got more to fear from our own brand of home-grown terrorists. (My personal opinions have been colouring this for a while I think. I've done my best to stay objective.)

Russia: Also one that must be mentioned... Russia regards itself as European. Some Europeans would agree. Others would not. Some agree, but wish that wasn't the case. Opinions on Russia are mixed, from mildly wary, ranging through increasing levels that can be described as "distrustful" before ranging into "suspicious" and then outright "hostile." Russia is generally seen as having a very corrupt, authoritarian government; while some see it as a democracy with growing pains, others see it as an authoritarian state masquerading behind a democratic mask.

In some ways, opinion of Russia has, sadly or truthfully, not changed since the 1800's. Russia is big. Russia is scary. And many are simply afraid of them. Even as far away as Britain.

edited 10th Jul '11 2:22:50 AM by GameChainsaw

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

Uhhh... as a pro-Europe kid (does that make me an 'idealistic socialist bastard' to qoute a misinformed loser?) I think that Europe is great. We're in it, so it must be!

Weirdly enough, we appear to have assimilated many of the things from the continent - the Middle-class and upper-classes have this fetish for French wine, we buy bagguettes.

We admire German engineering and have it as a badge of honour.

We have entire houses filled with cheap, Swedish crap. (Ikea).

We practically drink in the Spanish sun.

And Italy... well, we love that place to bits. Apart from the corruption.

Britain is probably seen as the lovestruck woman in Europe. We have a friend in the EU that desperately would ignore our mistakes and accept us no matter what, and yet, we want to stay with tough-guy America because he's got huge guns. He'll leave us in a heartbeat, but Europe? Nah. Always there for us.

It also makes sense politically and economically for us to better integrated. I would like Britain to be a power. However, being part of Europe will help us achieve that power.

Most people here see the continent as a far away place. I can understand considering that we're a poxy little island. Island. Yet, we're only separated by this tichy body of water than is the busiest shipping channel. The distance from London to Brussels is about 600km. The distance from London to Washington DC is about 10,000km.

Our politicians should share some of whatever they're smoking with me.

Well, while the UK are often seen as the "traitor" to Europe, for a while they were also thought to be the last hope the Constitutional Treaty / Treaty of Lisbon, that threatened to (I exaggerate only one bit) "turn Europe into America" (actually, lock the Europe into an extremely right-winged policy).

But the treaty was eventually approved anyway, and now people only think of the problems in Greece, Italy and Spain.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

Is it still the PIGS, or is it the PIIGS?

Edit: It is still PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain) and not the PIIGS (but with Italy). Somehow Italy has not collapsed yet.

edited 10th Jul '11 8:54:32 AM by Inhopelessguy

Let's see...

Romania: Beggars and thieves, even if didn't even do anything. Very sad.

Germany: Had inferiority complex, seems to fear to do anything incase they are msitaken for nazis. Getting better tough.

Britain: YOU ARE FUCKING EUROPEANS! Stop acting like you are world power, you are not. Always foggy, accosionally angry scots.

France: Same to you. Also, they make lot of wine.

Italy: Corrupts prime minister, laughting stock for rest.

Greece: People who expect rest of Europe to help them out without doing anythign themselves.

Russia: 1# Threath, just because. Maybe have cause in long history of finns fighting against them.

Sweden: Let me say this: "Swedes fight to last finn". Also have horrible language. General hostility to them, nothign seriously tough.

Estonia: Cheap booze, ladies and stuff.

I've been wondering for a while, do other Europeans ever want to bang England and France's heads together?

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Hey, hey, I think we're European. It's only a small... majority... that are idio... look, we have a stupid electorate, okay? They are idiots. I'm very pro-Europe. I even go as far to use system internationale in my daily life. Which causes confusion, but I'm not an old fogey.

I know that, I was jsut listing current stereotypes here in Finland.

edited 10th Jul '11 9:37:05 AM by Mandemo

Nah, not banging them together, but rather give each one a little flick on their noses.

What bothers me about France is their "Our language is the best!" attitude. I'm not saying that I don't like French, but such linguistic isolation in times of globalisation is silly.

England's "splendid isolation politic" is another thing that irks me and I think is far outdated.

edited 10th Jul '11 9:33:01 AM by Lock

Programming and surgery have a lot of things in common: Don't start removing colons until you know what you're doing.

"French language is best" people are obviously not technically minded. I think more in English than in French now. However, our numbers are better (excluding seventy, eighty and ninety; and still, if we took the Belgian words for them, the problem would disappear).

That's not a reason for letting our beautiful language go to waste with SMS talk and bad spelling, however.

---

Here, the stereotype for Poland is "cheap labor to which the evil corporations want to outsource".

edited 10th Jul '11 10:05:35 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

Err, sorry to butt in, but I don't see how French numbers are better then English. Up to 12 is more or less the same. From 13 to 16, the English are better. 20 until 69 are more or less the same, but I would say English is simpler.

Mind you, until that point my numbers are more or less the same as yours.

The only real negative stereotypes we have here in Ireland are towards the Polish and English. The Polish are gormless feckers who are taking all of our jerbs, and the English are just general scum of the Earth.

We're not too keen on the French either. A lot of middle aged folk would've went to France on exchange trips, and not everyone enjoyed their time there. My mother got fed up of being screamed at every time she tried to speak French, for instance. And my mother's French is superb.

"Is fearr Gaeilge briste ná Béarla cliste."

I know more French than the average Brit. I'm Crazy-Prepared for the time when our politicians wake up and quit dilldallying about the EU.

French would probably be the last language we'd need. English is already used as a lingua franca (which is not "we need to speak English to do business with the English" but "we need to speak English to do business with everyone"), several major European countries have much better programs for learning English than French and several other big European players have their languages spread out more than the French. French is low down on the list.

I'm learning Turkish and German.

But I thought that all (non elderly) Germans spoke English?

I mean it's useful for cultural or historical reasons but it doesn't seem terribly necessary for communication purposes.

edited 10th Jul '11 3:22:37 PM by storyyeller

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

Apparently a whole lot of Germans speak English, but only a few speak it well.

"Is fearr Gaeilge briste ná Béarla cliste."

Well crumbs one can say that with every country but if I'm in Europe and English isn't getting me by then German's the better back up or Turkish if I'm including them.

Outside of Europe but still using a European language? Spanish or Portugese.

Now if I was limiting myself to Africa, then yes, I'd say learn French but within Europe? Sorry fellas but you wouldn't let all the Poles in so they all learnt English.

See I'm a scientist, if I want to try and find the best position for myself somewhere, it's easy for me to work anywhere in Europe and the language requirement is English. However I'm looking at institutions in German speaking countries so if I want to order take out, I'm going to need to learn German (or indeed, due to immigration artifacts, Turkish).

However, in France, they are pickier about you speaking French so I may have to rule out some institutions there and I'd find getting by on bad Franglais harder so there's a gradient of difficulty applied to learning French. So you see, the French insist on speaking French which means I would rather live in Holland or Germany or Switzerland with some German and no French which means that the Germans and the Dutch don't have to bother with French and can just focus on English and the Dutch and the Poles who might already know English have the extra option of picking up German but have no reason to pick up French. Thus nobody will end up speaking French so the French either benefit less from happier EU relations or even end up surrounded by an Anglophile collaborative that steers things their way or they learn English.

edited 10th Jul '11 5:55:02 PM by SomeSortOfTroper

That's because you didn't go high enough. Try 123 (cent·vingt·trois: 3 syllables) or 1234 (mille·deux·cent·trent'·quat': 5 syllables, 6 if you count the last as qua·tre).

edited 11th Jul '11 1:28:21 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

It's not so much a problem with tourists, but it's bothersome that people have plans to go live in Holland thinking they don't need to bother learning the language. The Dutch have a terrible rep of immediately switching to English the moment they detect so much as a hint of an accent, so that plays a role too, but making even an effort is greatly appreciated.

I know what you said, sugar, but 'platonic' still entails a world of ideas.

We rather ravish English than let you ravish ours :P

If any question why we died/ Tell them, because our fathers lied -Rudyard Kipling

@Insanity Addict: Hence why I'm trying to learn Dutch. The process is being severely hampered by my lack of an instructor though.

I decided to take the list of countries in Europe on Wikipedia, and go on my first instinctc, only double checking if I'm not sure of some name. I'm also doing this very very late in the night and I have a sense of humor that is very funny to somone who lives inside my head. I apologize in advance, to everyone.

Albania: Finland is totally,. Injokes/memes aside, they had Hoxha, right? Bunch of bunkers in case of war. Former east block country either they or Yugoslavia were outside the Warsaw pact. These days, an undiscovered gem of the mediterranian, or so my travel agent tells me.

Andorra: Old smuggler's hideout. Micronation.

Armenia: A former target of genocide.

Austria: A cultural country, former part of the Austro-Hungrian empire.

Azerbaijan: They won the eurovision this year. I think their capital is Yerevan, which was the home of the fictious Radio Yerevan, popular in Soviet jokes. The people are called Azers.

Belarus: Dictatorship. Lukashenko. Vaguely soviet national emblem. Flag looks like a tablecloth. Buddies with Russia.

Belgium: Home of the EU parliament (half of it?) large immmigrant population, favourite horror scenario of right wing "Eurabia" scaremongers. Used to be one country with Neatherlands, but broke up during the religiously coloured Dutch revolution, being more catholic vs. the protestant north. Also, Belgian Congo, never forget.

Bosnia & Hertzegovina: Former Yugoslavia. No further knowledge.

Bulgaria: Yoghurt.

Croatia: See Bosnia & Hertzegovina.

Cyprus: Has been divided into a Greek and Turkish zoone for some time, but apparently there's been talks of reunification.

Czech Republic: Cultural country, formerly in union with Slovakia. 1968 Prague Spring, the Velvet Revolution. Ice Hockey.

Denmark: Monarchy, no mountains, notoriously conservative immmigration policies, but highly liberal politics in various things. The danish flag is the oldest national flag in the world.

Estonia: Tijuana of Finland. Lots of other history, from medieval, Hansa league trade, to own national rennaisance *

, soviet occupation (and a cool Soviet Republic flag) with ongoing resistance.

Finland: is totally Albania.

France: Changes form of governemnt like a stereotypical Frenchman changes spouses; currently the Fifth republic. Immportant hotbed for new philosophical, political and aartistic trends in Europe. The other pilar of the European Union. The French colonies made the British empire seem compotent and benevolent in comparison. Notorious for surrendering, despite their actual military history. Ironically enough, the flag for the kingdom of France was a full white flag.

Georgia: Recently had problems with Russia. Stalin was born there when it was called Grusia, subsecueantly killed the intelligencia of the country once he rose to power.

Germany: The pilar of EU. Don't Mention the War. The Wall. Most populous country in Europe after Russia, with 88 million people. Sizeable Turkish minority. Berlin is more Freestate Amsterdam than Amsterdam. On that, despite their reputation, very liberal people, even historically. Germany is to the ideology of nationalism what France is to the ideology of constitutional republic.

Greece: Home of philosophy and gay sex. One of the pawns during the cold war, had a military Junta, and is currently housing a financial crisis which really, has nothing to do with the tabloid-scandallous benefits for the workers, but the investment bubble in the past decade.

Hungary: Their language is related to Finnish.

Iceland: Island mostly made up of inhospitable volcanic wasteland and glaciers. Björk, Sigur Rós, Lazy Town, lesbian Prime Minister. Financial crisis.

Ireland: There was some unpleasantness between them and Britain I hear. Great folk music. Apparently every white American is a bit Irish (their grandmother was an O'Flarrety, did you know her?). Also in economic troubles. The country has a second official language, Gaelic.

Italy: Country with a great history and little else. Currently led by Don Berlusconi, a man so crooked he sleeps on a spiral staircase, and with a smile that gives angels syphilis (I might want to stop quoting Dylan Moran soon). Constantly on the verge of civil war during the cold war, had a silent military coup (Operation Piano Solo), left wing and right wing terrorism. Mafia is very real and very much in power in Sicily. Catholicism a power player. Tuscony, Pizza, wine.

Kazakhstan: This entry will not mention Borat.

Latvia: Important to European history... somehow.

Liechtenstein: country the size of a postage stamp. The kin is technically an absolute monarch, threatened to sell the country to Bill Gates if the citizens didn't comply.

Lithuania: See Latvia.

Luxembourg: The thrird nipple of the Netherlands region.

Macedonia. Alexander the Great.

Malta: Island nation, has a square flag.

Moldova: Exists.

Monaco: Playground for the rich. The future king is a sleazebag.

Montenegro: Funny name.

Netherlands: Amsterdam. Bicycles. Daffodils. Windmills. Dutch Revoluton set a precedent for all future revolutions in Europe.

Norway: Oil. Fish. Black Metal. Fjords, Slartibartfast won a prize for them.

Poland: Kickball of the Empires.

Portugal: In financial crisis. Former fascist dictatorship and colonial power. The former colonies, Brazial, Angola and Mozambique are quite unique.

Romania: Ceusescu would have make Vlad The Impaler rise his unibrow. Despite the names, Romania does not treat it Roma people all that well.

Russia: A mystery wrapped in an enigma, with a side dish on borch. Some might argue it's not an Eurpean country due to geography, but since almost the entire population — despite Stalin's brave attmepts of population relocations — is centered on the Moscow-St. Petersburg (The Artist Formerly known as Petrograd, Leningrad and Big Pete) axis. Currently ruled by President Medvedev with the aide of former president Putin. Politically repressive. In war with a new former Soviet state in the caucasus or steppes every other week.

San Marino: Exists.

Serbia: Nikola Tesla, Gavrilo Princip. Slobodan Milosevic, Ratko Mladic.

Slovakia: Not Czechoslovakia. Ice Hockey.

Slovenia: I know where it's located. Not much else.

Spain: The Empire sun didn't set on, until it did, Inquisition, Goya, the Republic, the civil war, CNT-FAI, The International Brigades, Guernica, Franco, Beach resorts, Basque and Catalan independance movements, I want to go to Barcelona. Also in a financial pickle. is it just me or is there something historically in common between the crisis countries?

Sweden: Finland's cool cousin.

Switzerland: Local democracy. Xenophobia. Bank secrets. Chocolate. It's all connected, I tell you.

Turkey: Kinda needs to work on that democracy thing. Has a city called Batman.

Ukraine: A big fucking country.

The United Kingdom: Doesn't ring a bell.

Vatican: No homo.

the statement above is false

>:|

"Is fearr Gaeilge briste ná Béarla cliste."

Sorry, Gaeilge. And if that's the only mistake anyone objects to, I'm lucky.

the statement above is false