Are you concerned Chavez will rule like Castro?

By that I mean: are you concerned that he will stay in power for dozens more years, and rule in the same fashion as Fidel Castro, the man he so admires? Do you believe he doesn't want to, or can't do that? Or would you be perfectly happy for him to continue in power for as long time yet and rule in the same manner as Fidel?

Do you agree with his supporters that he helps the poor and that he needs more time to ensure the socialist revolution will take root? Do you believe he intends to eventually transform Venezuela into another dictatorship with himself impossible to challenge?

And do you believe he spouts populist rhetoric or that he talks for the people?

I don't think Chavez will ever get as oppressive as Castro, although I'm pretty sure he is an insane commie Control Freak. He uses populist propaganda that is not so different from Soviet propaganda and he is more of a Moral Guardian than your average church-going conservative redneck. People like him though so they might buy his crap and let him stay in power

"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey

I'm very concerned about it.

It's a natural result of backing ultra-populists into a corner. Which is why I fully support NOT backing them into a corner in the first place.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

Chavez is a demagogue, but not in the league of Castro. After all, Cuba thinks everything they don't like is a sickness of "bourgeois", like gay people.

On the other hand, you can draw a parallel between the well-to-do Venezuelans who are fucking pissed off at Hugo and the Cuban exiles who burn Castro in effigy.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

He's a textbook Banana Republic dictator. Nothing more.

Not really, textbook dictator would be using the military to go into power and stay in power.

I think the issue here is that there are enough people who like him that he can be put into power for a long time by the people themselves. However, he hasn't ever been able to pass legislation on exceeding the term limits and he has shown no signs of using military force to beat that. So overall, I think he'll probably leave quietly once he's done.

edited 4th Jul '11 11:41:06 AM by breadloaf

Nope. There are much more dangerous people to be concerned about, Castro is comparatively benign.

If Venezuelans continue to vote for him, then that's the choice they make. A choice Cubans have never had the chance to make.

That said the kindest thing I'll say about Chavez is that I don't see what's so great about the system he promotes. Especially when compared to Brazil or even Colombia.

From my understanding he's relatively well liked by his people, while Castro...not so much.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

^ Castro didn't have oil profits to pass around to the poor.

Of course, the way Chavez basically pisses all over the notion of private property or contracts, in regards to oil companies that kept Venezuela's oil infrastructure running reasonably well, how much longer he'll have those profits that are fueling his ambitions is another matter entirely. Exxon, Chevron, etc aren't sticking around to basically have the work and equipment they paid for getting stolen out from underneath them.

All your safe space are belong to Trump

^ Considering Chavez has already nationalized and seized the Venezuelan oil fields, Exxon and Chevron have no power anymore.

Seriously, he's a textbook dictator. (There's more than one way in the book, he's using the other feasible one than military coup de'tat.) He's placated the people to not give a damn about him, he's stripped his limits of power, and now he's been moving to take the power away from the people. (Since they're placated by his "great socialist state" no real resistance will emerge when he finally yanks the power of the vote.)

edited 4th Jul '11 1:27:52 PM by MajorTom

^ Gah, I actually knew they already split. Dunno where that last sentence came from, other than fatigue.

Anyway, given the Latino tendency towards "mañana" and that their oil infrastructure dates back to like the 70s, it's a crap shoot as to how long they'll keep the equipment up and running enough to at least break even on costs.

All your safe space are belong to Trump

I'm not particularly worried about it. Venezuela is the next North Korea: absurdly backwards country that will soon collapse on the weight of it's own failure at economics. Either that, and/or he'll crash and burn when we start adopting alternate energy sources/stop buying oil from him. I'm still wondering how the hell Cuba is functioning, although at this point I'm in favor of dropping the embargo just because they're really not worth the effort... and the US economy could easily overpower theirs anyhow if given the chance...

I am now known as Flyboy.

Chavez is not a "text book dictator".

That's not to say he's good. But there is quite a gradual middle field between democracy and dictatorship. Chavez upholds an authoritarian illiberal democracy. He's a strongman, who uses dirty and brutal tactics, but still within the framework of a technical democracy, which does constrain him to some point.

A "text book dictator" would be a putschist ruling through military fire power. Different thing.

Now, it seems Chavez isn't really all that good for the Venezuelan economy, but I can understand why he'd still have high support. After all, to the poor it doesn't matter at all if the economy booms or sucks - they normally won't ever see any of the money anyway. Chavez makes sure they do - in ridiculously inefficient ways that basically amount to vote buying, yes, but it's not like any government before him has cared for the poor.

So really, it's ambiguous.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

No.

Also, what said.

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!

I'd like to note that in Cubas case at least, the supposed "democratic" regime was pretty bloody nasty itself, from what I've heard.

Also, I wonder if Cuba would be quite such a bad case if the worlds economic superpower hadn't placed a goddamn embargo on an island nation.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

I'm going to have to disagree with this, and agree with Tom.

A true "textbook" dictator is one who is Caesar-like(ie: Julius and Octavian/Augustus): The people of the country love the ruler, and wish him to remain in power. But if the people ever got uppity, the ruler has the might of the military behind him that he can use to ensure he remains in power for as long he wants(unless he gets stabbed by a "friend").

Chavez is a textbook dictator in that his people do love him, and want him in power... And he does have full military support. If he ever uses that support to remain in power should he lose the favor of the people... Well, then he will be like Castro, won't he?

edited 6th Jul '11 3:02:28 PM by Swish

To be fair, the reason they were so stable after the revolution is because the USSR was subsidizing their economy. Without that, Cuba got boned.

I'd say Chavez is trying very hard to be a dictator, but isn't quite one.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

Awwww! Now I feel like giving him a hug.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

As opposed to Chavez, who had to resort to a popular revolution to prevent the military coup from staying in power after they seized it.

Oh, those poor widdle transnational MegaCorps!

Eric,

I have to say, destroying the power of the Mega Corps makes me feel a little friendly toward him.

But he is trying way too hard to be Soviet style, when its clearly in a dictator's best interests to be loved by the public and do things to make em want you to stay there.

edited 6th Jul '11 10:46:35 PM by NickTheSwing

The way I see it, Chavez thinks he has all the answers on how to fix his country and seriously believes that the US is conspiring to overthrow him, but the truth is he really doesn't have a realistic view on both cases. He's taken away too much power from the Courts and made them too dependent on his word and inactive as a result, discouraged a ton of companies from wanting to invest in Venezuela out of fear that he might suddenly pull their contracts from out under them, and pissed off several countries that once had decent relations with him (namely Spain, most of Western Europe, and the US). But worst of all, his actions have slowly ruined the very 1999 Constitution that he once so proudly touted by constantly overriding the decisions of the other government branches, namely the Courts.

Chavez ain't no Castro, nor does he truly plan to totally emulate him (at least I hope not), but his actions aren't helping Venezuela one bit.

edited 7th Jul '11 2:00:11 AM by SgtRicko

Before being all "boo megacorps" and all, might I suggest some of y'all consider the result of the corporations being driven off, particularly for Venezuelans?

Much of the oil infrastructure was maintained by the corporations with their own employees, with little to no local staff. So, by effectively chasing off the oil corps, Chavez also chased off the workers and technicians who were maintaining the very infrastructure on which he's indirectly relying to stay popular with the people (and thus remain in power). I'm hardly an expert on oil production, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't generally pump itself into oil tanks.

And then there's a slightly less direct issue: By nationalizing the property of the oil corporations, Chavez has basically made himself look to international investors of any stripe as being anti-business, which discourages other companies from engaging in trade with/in Venezuela. There's no USSR to send gobs of money and other resources, as happened with Cuba after Castro's take-over, and the ones willing to deal with Venezuela aren't exactly economic powerhouses themselves.

But I guess the Venezuelans don't matter, as long as Chavez "sticks it to the megacorps".

All your safe space are belong to Trump

It's more "Are things better than before him" to most. It doesn't matter where he hits on political spectrum, as long as Venezuelans themselves keep voting him and like him, we have no right to go and say GTFO