The growing problem of inscrutable titles and text

In the PM. I was perfectly glad to leave that conversation in PM.

There are three people, only, who were taking a no-change stance on the Girls' Love issue. None responded to the concerns I raised. They just kept pounding out the same declarations over and over. Entrenchment. Nothing was raised supporting obscure names or impenetrable text.

I was not convinced that the perfectly reasonable change was not in order.

From my end, that is over. The change is a done deal.

edited 29th Jun '11 6:56:36 PM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

^^ Oh. Whoops, my bad.

Doesn't using the term "yuri" carry some connotations that the work is pornographic?

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Grinding the declarations yet again. I've answered all those elements. Multiple times. I'm done.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

@Fast Eddie: But from what we know, or at least what is clear, you're only concern that it might "possibly" be confusing. We don't know if it's confusing or not yet.

One of my many concerns about your decision is that it might reflect badly on you or the wiki.

edited 29th Jun '11 7:03:06 PM by chihuahua0

.... Guys, I think it's left to us to scour the locked thread for those answers and points that Eddie insists he has given, and then address them. Otherwise, we're not going anywhere.

For the record, though, if it were me who was making the opposition stance, I would have gone through that thread and compiled all those answers/points, instead of sticking to "I already answered/gave my counter-points. I'm not repeating myself."

edited 29th Jun '11 7:03:02 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

There are three people, only, who were taking a no-change stance on the Girls' Love issue. None responded to the concerns I raised.

Similarly, there was one person, one person only, who was taking a pro-change stance, and he similarly refused to address the concerns we raised.

And thats assuming your assumptions in that statement are even correct, which I'll provisionally grant for the sake of this post.

What, specifically, do you want us to address?

I thought the new trope name had something to do with Russians until I clicked on it.

Jet-a-Reeno!

@Marj: All right. But I don't really have the time to do that. I'm only on this right now because the bathroom is occupied. I still have Writer's Block stuff to deal to.

@suedenim: Oh right. Yuri's also a Russian name. That's an interesting I Thought It Meant. I think that should also be added to the page.

Although this definitions are too obscure, Yuri also seems to be the name of a Amazonian and a New Guinea language.

Personally, Yuri Genre is even more confusing than Girls Love Genre, or Girls' Love.

edited 29th Jun '11 7:07:50 PM by chihuahua0

X7 Yes "Yuri" is used in Fan Fiction to mean F/F smut.

In the locked thread I had laid out a way to eliminate all the confusion I got flat out ignored....

edited 29th Jun '11 7:07:01 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

@Raso: Was that the Genre namespace suggestion, or did someone else did that.

Also, it isn't three people on our side. There were at least 4-5 active people, with more than ten people in total who were on our side of the argument.

edited 29th Jun '11 7:09:37 PM by chihuahua0

If only one troper supports the move, and they have declared themselves 'finished', I would be happy to move it back. At least until the forum can describe what to do with it.

edited 29th Jun '11 7:15:15 PM by ninjacrat

Okay, that's not a good idea, and I'm saying this as someone who is against the move.

Seriously, edit warring over it is a really good way to get the issue dismissed altogether, not to mention that you'd almost certainly be banned.

edited 29th Jun '11 7:16:28 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

@crat: Be careful. Although Eddie is only one person, he's the owner of the wiki, and he can declare stuff finished.

But that doesn't mean it's set in stone.

Sometimes you need to know when to leave something alone and this is one of those times. Leave it alone. Really.

I could possibly step away from this right now. Probably be better for my state of mind.

But I still think the reasoning behind the decision is flawed. If this thread gets locked, an appeal should be made again in a few months. Maybe then we'll be more clear to each other, and we'll reach a solution with concrete evidence.

The best way to break this standoff is to do a full wicks check. A wicks check is yet to be made, and it'll be the one piece of evidence that could either strengthen or shatter Fast Eddie's argument. Someone just has to be willing to take the time to do it.

Leaving it alone? It'd setup a bad precedent. Or rather not, since we have it already. So I take it discussing the pros and cons, which was something that was asked to do, would be pointless at this stage?

edited 29th Jun '11 7:26:52 PM by SilentReverence

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?

That's the phrase, "bad precedent." I see this whole debate as sort of a court case. Right now, the verdict had been appealed for. It turns out that a piece of evidence had been deemed flawed, and the objections had been overruled wrongly. We are at the circuit court, reviewing the arguments made and what had gone wrong. With a clean slate, a new jury had been made.

It's tempting to wait for Supreme Court, though.

This isn't the best metaphor, considering the people involved, but it's a good way to look at this situation.

edited 29th Jun '11 7:33:02 PM by chihuahua0

@Post36 Well I suggested

• Just go with _____ Genre (Girls Love Genre or Yuri Genre) the page covers the genre so it should say that I do agree with Fast Eddie on that saying the word Girls' Love or Yuri could mean the genre or the relationship or a number of things.
  • The Genre namespace came up after that and I think would work a lot better since it would say Genre:Girls' Love on the header of the page. as well as fix other Genre pages such as Urban Fantasy and make them inline with say Harem Genre.
• Disambig the page "Yuri" with.
  • Its usage and history in Japan (meaning "Lily" and how its became the word for girls romance)
  • The publications that have taken that word IE the 4 Yuri Hime publications that all carry Yuri Genre works.
  • Include links to all related trope such as Yuri Genre, Yuri Fan (that trope itself refers to Yuri Subtext Fans (or text) not the genre in general.)
  • Its adaptation into the Fan Fic world to mean Female hardcore sex with Shoujo-ai (literal meaning "Girls' Love") taking the broad meaning of what everyone else defines Yuri as.
  • Common male Russian name.
    • which comes up more as a name in japan then you might think (Metal Gear Solid 3 spoofs it and makes the guy a gay man with the name "Yuri", as well as the Half Russian half Japanese Yuri in Shadow Hearts intentional? I think so.)
• Rework the Yuri Genre page to include the works where "Yuri" its a big but not central (nor marketed) element IE Nanoha (The Other Wiki's page does this)
• Go though the wicks to see what should be pointed where.

edited 29th Jun '11 7:46:19 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

@Raso: You should discard the arrows and use the post numbers instead. It'll make it easier on of us people.

edited 29th Jun '11 7:33:16 PM by chihuahua0

@Post45

Ok done.

edited 29th Jun '11 7:34:27 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

This isn't a race and there is no time limit on how to resolve conflict. Some times the best action is a period of inaction.

And I am withdrawing from the discussion

edited 29th Jun '11 7:36:16 PM by blackcat

@Post 47*

: And to further extend my metaphor, trials like this could extend for months, if not years. Sometimes, the jury can't reach a decision, or the argument is too complex.

I think that Fast Eddie should state his argument in bulleted points, for those who hasn't seen the TRS thread and for clarity. We're wasting a lot of time on this issue.

I need to leave for a few minutes.

edited 29th Jun '11 7:38:26 PM by chihuahua0

Sometimes however, waiting for too long is counterproductive and harming to the judgment because the passing of time alters the ability of the parts to recall evidence. It already happened with strikethrough (an excellent example of the "precedent" issue, by the way).

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?

My greatest fear, aside from any that was pointed out by other tropers already, is that Eddie's unilateral rename is going to make things worse rather than fix whatever problems he saw with the original name. Already we've had someone note that they completely misinterpreted what "Yuri Genre" meant.

I'll return to this discussion later. Gotta go for a few hours.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.