Mass Effect or Dragon Age?

.*pistol-whips Dan*

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

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Dragon Age: Origins>Mass Effect Mass Effect 2>Dragon Age II

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent

let's see. Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age 1? Both good games with quirks that hold them back, but make for a solid experience.

Mass Effect 2, fantastic game with a bit of an identity crisis.

Dragon Age 2, STEAMING PILE OF CRAP.

Yea, Mass Effect franchise wins unless Mass Effect 3 can pull out a worse game than Dragon Age 2 (and I don't even intend to try DA 3).

Mass Effect 2 any day thank you. Was that even a question?

   I will consume not only your flesh, but your very soul.   

My rankings:

1. ME2

2. DAO

3. DA2

4. ME1

I like all four though, although as a whole I prefer DA to ME

For just one(or two) play-through(s), I'd say Mass Effect is the better series...

But over the past couple of months, I haven't been able to work up the effort to play through ME1 again (and thereby carrying over a "new" Shepard into ME2)... Whereas I haven't had any problem with replaying Origins and Dragon Age 2 multiple times.

It could be because Origins is vastly superior to ME1, but with the sequels the sentiment is reversed... Even so, I find myself more willing to replay Dragon Age 2 than I am ME1...

edited 28th Jun '11 3:45:36 PM by Swish

DAO also has a bit more of a difference between characters depending on the origins, etc.

I personally prefer DAO to ME 2, but then again, I prefer the top-down isometric view to the first person one.

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent

Masterpiece is a word that gets tossed around way too frequently.

As others have said, ME 2 is definitely better than DA 2. Mass Effect 2 streamlines the original game, and this works because the original game had unnecessary rpg elements and dice rolls applied to shooting. The resulting game is a cover based shooter (unfortunately one made up of corridors and overly reliant on cover but it's still fun) with light rpg elements. It suffers a little in that you probably wouldn't call it an rpg if it hadn't come from bioware or been a sequel to ME 1 (which was a bad rpg imo so not a big loss) but it's overall a solid game with decent combat and interesting companions (most of them anyway...stupid Jacob).

Dragon Age 2 tries the exact same approach to DA: Origins. This was an incredibly stupid approach as Origins did not need to be streamlined like that, it's a top down, iso, Real time with pause game and applying a dialogue wheel and combat that tries to please hack n slash fans and RTWP fans at the same time results in a complete mess. It's also horrendously railroaded for an rpg (even more so than ME 2?!) and the dialogue wheel strips a lot of the dialogue down- which wasn't needed imo for a game that should've added more to the dialogue elements instead. Overall it's a cluttered attempt at streamlining (in this case I'd just flat out call it dumbing down) to reach a wider market (again unnecessary- the first one sold like 3.5 mill that's a huge audience for a rtwp game) while still attempting to please the old school fans and in the end it fails at both.

That's true I guess, I suppose it's a matter of what you value more in games. DA 2 does actually have a massive retcon for certain players as well though.

edited 28th Jun '11 6:45:59 PM by ShadowScythe

...I prefered Dragon Age 2. The universe is deeper, character interaction is deeper, and the cast of characters are more relevant to the overall plot that in ME 2. There are maybe four or five characters instrumental to the plot in ME 2, and so everyone else present feels disposable, even characters who return fom the first game. DA 2's has about a dozen characters whose actions influence the plot, and doesn't feature the rather disturbing retcon at the centre of the plot that Me2 does.

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The only adjective I will use for "Dragon Age: Origins" is "fuckin' disappointing."

I love Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 to pieces, though.

"Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person that doesn't get it."

Erm....retcon? In ME 2? Where?

DA 2 retcons all over the place whenever it feels like it. Gaider's been pretty snotty about it being his right, for that matter.

edited 28th Jun '11 7:39:56 PM by Rebochan

I assume that its Cerberus going from an Alliance special ops unit that only recently went rogue and was led by a General who wanted to create an army of supersoldiers to a human supremecist organization that has been around since the end of the First Contact War that is led by the Illusive Man.

In contrast, most of DA2's retcons are aesthetic.

edited 28th Jun '11 8:03:43 PM by lrrose

Erm... I thought the entire point of Dragon Age 2 was that it was told as a folk story, and thus not completely accurate.

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.

That's too much of a handwave and a cop out for the bad design choices and awkward railroading and retcons in the game.

The only "awkward" retcon in the DA2, that I know of, involves Anders/Justice... And is only present as a retcon if you make a specific choice: Allow the Templars to take him in Awakening.

If you didn't play Awakening, or if you did and didn't make that choice, then there isn't that much of a problem...

I mean, that's actually my favorite difference between DA2 and ME2(Even though ME2 is the "better" game). The retcons in Dragon Age 2(save that specific Anders one) are reasonably explained and make sense without rewriting the previous installment. The retcons in Mass Effect 2 are barely explained (if at all), and don't make sense without rewriting Mass Effect...

edited 28th Jun '11 8:44:52 PM by Swish

^ Leliana. And as Rebo has said, Gaider has been incredibly condescending and snooty to people annoyed with this retcon.

well...as someone who actually didn't kill Leliana I'd have to ask what the explanation is, cause I'd never heard it mentioned by anyone and Gaider himself never said it was explained, in fact, according to this thread he says he hasn't offered any explanation yet.

Merril had no personality in DA: Origins, so really they pretty much made a new character and slapped Merril's name on top.

edited 28th Jun '11 10:13:53 PM by ShadowScythe

Leliana is explained, fairly well actually, if one has the Sebastian DLC... in every possible iteration(never recruited, dead following Andraste's Ashes, lived as love interest, lived as non-love interest).

Gaider's "snooty" expansion on the explanation seems, to me, to be based on the fact that the people bitching either never got the DLC, or they didn't bother to look for the explanation. And I would likely have reacted the same way to both groups of people...

Regardless, better such a response to fans than the "because we don't have to explain" non-responses Mass Effect has done with their retcons...

edited 28th Jun '11 10:06:24 PM by Swish

I'll have to redo the Dalish Elf origin in, well, Origins, but I don't remember Merril being as awkward and naive as she is in 2. I can understand actually dealing with demons changing her outlook on the subject, but that was still a bumpy transition too.

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I was heavily disappointed by DA 2 because I couldn't shag the best character in the game: Varric.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

Gaider's "snooty" expansion on the explanation seems, to me, to be based on the fact that the people bitching either never got the DLC, or they didn't bother to look for the explanation. And I would likely have reacted the same way to both groups of people...

Heaven forbid a game explain it's retcons. But for only 7 dollars you too can lose 7 dollars!

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@Shadow Scythe The codex entries:

I fail to see why it would need to be explained further, other than with condescension, if people question it. And since the only retcon that doesn't make any sense within the context of the story would be the Anders thing(which, as said, is only unexplained in the one instance), I really fail to see the problems people have with the recons in DA2.

Unless people have problems with the explanations themselves. And if that's the case, then people are essentially just complaining about something they don't like. And at this point they should probably just suck it up since it's not changing anytime soon (because if it did, the same people would probably complain about ''that'' retcon...)

Edit: As I said, the $7 explanation (or "free" with that pre-order) is still better than the no explanation that Mass Effect has given on their retcons.

edited 28th Jun '11 10:43:57 PM by Swish

I kind of have a problem with a professional, lead person who is condescending without just joking around. I don't know what the response was, but if it was anything more than negative than "You should read the codex and find out! winking face emoticon" then I kind of have some beef. Though judging from the long tl;dr that Gaider posted which included teasers for the new DLC, it probably was more negative, so yeah.

I mean there are really two ways to answer questions when you are a creator such that you don't look like a huge raging douchebag: answering the question (and it's okay to poke fun at people by going like "Well such and such is like so because of citation here, i mean duh") or just brushing it aside with a cryptic expression. You're the creator of a world; if someone is having trouble understanding something, either you failed to explain it or you meant for it to be a mystery, so you're obligated to either clear things up and/or encourage critical thinking. You are not obligated to whine about people not exploring every nook and cranny of your creation.

Back to Dragon Age, if I recall correctly, the codex is horribly organized and doesn't have a dude with a sweet voice narrating it, which I count as "failing to explain."

PS. which retcons in Mass Effect are you talking about?

edited 28th Jun '11 10:53:22 PM by ch00beh

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

The big two are Cerberus and the weapon heatsinks bit.

There are other relatively minor inconsistencies I have problems with in the two Mass Effect games, but I wouldn't put them in the realm of retcons because of the whole aura of "they've planned out the trilogy from the beginning" that keeps being presented when Mass Effect is discussed, and I'm willing to give the developers the benefit of the doubt on that.

Note: I want to make it clear that I'm not harping on Mass Effect series in general... nor am I saying that Dragon Age 2 is an equal to either game... I just don't think it's the steaming pile of crap that people here (and elsewhere) seem to think. And I know that there aren't as many storyline inconsistencies between Origins and it's sequel as people would like to believe. Just seems to me a massive piling on of They Changed It, Now It Sucks!. Which I understand, but really... it's been 3 months. At this point it's just complaining to complain, isn't it?

edited 28th Jun '11 11:10:08 PM by Swish

Huh, guess there's a vague explanation after all. It's flimsy, but it'll have to do.

^There are a lot of design decisions about DA 2 that people find pretty bad beyond just They Changed It, Now It Sucks! and this thread has kinda...reopened that I guess. In any case, it seems like the OP found his answer by post 10-11 so...thread over?