Moving creators off main

Splitting it away from this conversation due to getting lost in the midst of people wondering what namespace goes there.

Anyway, I suggest that all creators go into a "Creator" namespace (e.g. David Tennant moved to Creator.David Tennant). The reason I suggest this is that, well, creators aren't any more tropes than works. If anything, they're less like tropes than works.

For this, I think just Creator will be a fine namespace, going by the logic that "[a]ctors create the roles even if someone else writes the character and another person directs the action" (quoted from blackcat). Vampire Buddha also suggested using Person/ instead, which could also work but doesn't tie in with the page type (minor trife, I suppose). If we go with Person, we should probably include Adolf Hitler and the like.

Thoughts?

edited 28th Jun '11 10:14:21 AM by MangaManiac

Huh, good point about Hitler.

My feeling is, Adolf Hitler is a person who frequently appears in stories. This makes him a storytelling element, which in turn makes him a trope. Hence, he stays in Main/.

I still think Person/ is superior to Creator/, because while an actor can certainly influence the final result of a series by their style and approach, they are ultimately replaceable; a writer or director can reasonably use any actors they wish and come up with more or less the same result, while changing the writer or director leads to a different story. One does occasionally get a movie written specifically for an actor, but in that case, it was still written by a writer; the writer created the movie, and while they may have written it around the actor, the actor's role in shaping the story is essentially passive unless they actually take on some of the writing or directing duties, in which case they become a writer/director in addition to actor.

Does that make any sense?

Hitler is something akin to a public domain character. I feel like we need to make a distinction in these articles as to what, precisely, is being discussed about the person. Are they:

• A Real Life figure being discussed for historical purposes and/or to compare against their presentation in media? Sounds like Useful Notes.
• An artist, writer, etc? That's a Creator.
• An actor, actress, or other performer? That should go under Performer, maybe.

What if someone is both a creator and a performer?

EDIT: Oh, and if we go with "person", what about channels like BBC?

edited 28th Jun '11 10:42:08 AM by MangaManiac

Or organizations like Twentieth Century Fox, Sega, Dark Horse Comics, Namco, etc.

edited 28th Jun '11 11:27:00 PM by troacctid

Bump.

I was just coming to suggest a Creators namespace, and finally managed to find the existing thread, so let me say instead that I endorse the idea.

As for the name, Creators is what we call them already, and I don't see any reason to change now.

Fighteer> Hitler is something akin to a public domain character. I feel like we need to make a distinction in these articles as to what, precisely, is being discussed about the person. Are they:

False Dichotomy. As are all dichotomies, probably. Because, you see, Ludwig Van Beethoven was an alien spy.

I think actors qualify as creators, in that they create their performances, if nothing else. They also often create lines or scenes, if the director is sufficiently flexible. In broad terms, though, they contribute to the creation of a work. We currently have Actors as a subindex of Creators, so I see no problem with keeping actors in a Creator namespace. Tropes Are Flexible. :)

That still leaves questions about publishers and historical figures, but I don't think we need to solve every issue in this thread, which is about a Creator namespace. As someone suggested above, historical figures who appear in multiple works can effectively be considered tropes. As for publishers, I dunno, but they're definitely not people. Maybe Useful Notes would be best. Or trivia. But not relevant to this thread.

Am I wasting my breath here? Is a Creator namespace something that will never, ever happen? Or is it a good idea that just hasn't come of age yet?

I'm hoping for the latter. Creators, while still relevant, are most certainly not tropes unless they're someone like Adolf Hitler.

edited 25th Sep '11 11:49:30 AM by MangaManiac

So who is even qualified to make the decision? Is the creation of official new namespaces a privilege reserved to Eddie, or will it help to lobby the mods?

You'd need Eddie's support to add it to the namespace tabs at the top of a page or add an icon for it. But putting an article in a previously nonexistent namespace doesn't require any special support.

Hm. This is a really simple solution that someone's probably already mentioned, but why don't we just have multiple pages for a person? One on /Person for the actual person him or herself, and then if the person is notable enough to be used within media like Hitler, then they also have one on /Main?

If we split people from their appearences in media, then the two shouldn't share a name. A Certain Fuehrer might be Mr. Hitler's appearence page, for example.